I suspect that Gege’ Bau, who commented on one of my posts recently, may know something about the meaning of the Italian word ‘furbo’.
In case you did not know, it means crafty, clever, smart, sharp, astute and sly. Not all at the same time, mind you. You need to know the context.
Learning Italian in Italy can help you appreciate such subtleties, as can doing an Italian culture course. Reading this blog may well help too.
Furbo is a Funny Word
For example, if someone manages to get to the head of a queue before you in Italy, then they are ‘furbo’ smart, in his or her eyes, although in my eyes they are ‘furbo’ sly. If, on the other hand, I think up an imaginative solution to a problem, then I too will be regarded as being ‘furbo’, but not furbo sly, but ‘furbo’ astute/sharp.
Furbo is a funny (funny = strange/odd, in this case) word, and you need to be ‘furbo’ to understand it. It’s one of those odd positive/negative words, such as ‘clever’ in English, which sometimes means quite the opposite of intelligent, as my native English language readers will know.
Differing Concepts of Honesty
In fact this curious little word raises another interesting issue, which is the differing concepts of ‘honesty’ that exist in UK and Italian culture. Indeed, what may be considered as being plain dishonest by an Englishman/American (?), would not necessarily be considered so by the average Italian.
In fact, one of Italy’s most famous ‘furbi’ was the late Bettino Craxi, who apparently embezzled a large sum of Italian taxpayers’ money, and then hid in Tunisia. Craxi did not believe he had done anything that wrong. In his eyes, he was only being ‘furbo’, and demonstrated this a little further by moving to a country with no extradition agreement with Italy.
Even if the words ‘honest’ and ‘dishonest’ may exist in many languages, and they do in Italian, the actual meaning of, or rather concept behind these words most probably varies from culture to culture. The trick is knowing whether or not other cultures have either a similar or different concept of honesty to your own.
However, the process of establishing the concept of honesty in the country in which you find yourself may well turn out to be somewhat painful, if you are not rather careful. Obviously, it helps if you can find some ‘honest’ inside information, but then again how can you know if the inside information is really honest?
Answer: Experience is the greatest teacher, and eventually, after you have had a few ‘hot finger’ episodes, you may understand how the land lies.
On Learning Italian
I learnt Italian in Italy – on the street, with dictionaries and teach yourself books. If you want to learn Italian in Italy too, I would recommend doing a course, in somewhere somewhere like Perugia or Bologna. Doing a course in Italy is a much quicker way to learn Italian.
You might find a good Italian English dictionary, or two, useful – I certainly have done. Amazon.com has plenty to choose from.
On Italian Culture
Italian culture courses may also be useful for those who might have to deal with Italians in the course of their work.![Reblog this post [with Zemanta]](http://img.zemanta.com/reblog_e.png?x-id=72a51748-0076-47af-9333-e83a6af9890c)
Professor Bretzel says
Italy has a great culture and a great countryside? — But the culture is only external: architecture and art from ancient times. What’s the use of living with nice landscape and old buildings etc., if the bulk of the folk, which lives there are pathological furbo liars? In the German language way of thinking we sympathize also with a sort of furbo: The jester or Till Eulenspiegel (and extreme variants thereof: Münchhausen and the Schildbürger and Simplicissimus or even the Saxon Sherlock Holmes). But these figures are, in contrast to the Italian furbo, genuine truth searchers.
They practice ‘furbo’ not just to be cunning: In these German figures there is a kind of stupidity, which contains substance. The vision and the courage to be stupid in this sense is the reason for the success of the German speaking countries. Why? Because intended cunningness (as in Italian or generally and since old times Southern/Arab/African furbo) is in reality a hidden kind of real stupidity (not in the German sense). Perhaps the ‘group spirits’ of Germans are ‘Till’ or ‘Sherlock’ and the ones of the other just mentioned folks (or race influences, which means all the same, though it is artificially emotionally loaded) are (obsessed by) ‘furbo’. The reason why the Swiss people elected 2014 for the mass immigration initiative, is to prevent the intrusion of too much dumpy furbo-stupidity.
From the continent says
Italians have plenty of faults but I ‘d like to remember that the present financial crisis was caused by the freaky concept of honesty embedded in the anglo-saxon society: I cheat on all the planet with tricky financial products but then I queue at the bus to give public display of my integrity. The geopolitical mess ravaging the planet is the consequence of the dodgy foreign policy carried out by the british during the centuries: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Palestine to mention the few. The measures adopted in UK against frauds at all levels are far more effective and rigorous than in Italy, maybe the UK was invaded by italians or something doesn’t add up regarding the level of honesty among the british people. I’d like also to remember that the crime rate in Italy is not superior to the nations you mentioned and the homicide rate is one of the lowest among the western countries (5 time inferior to US). We duly paid our hated IMU (house taxation) recently despite being utterly overstretched economically: In other Nations we would have seen bloody revolutions. Furbi usually mingle with other furbi in Italy as everywhere and are not appreciated by the rest of the community, in Italy as everywhere. Finally you forget to mention the peculiar italian system. When you have a level of taxation similar to that one of Cuba cheating on taxes is not a choice but the only way to survive. The same concept can be applied when you have to deal with the awful italian bureaucracy or when you are obliged to park your car in third row because someone forgot to build a proper car parking nearby.
Alex Roe says
You do have a point re the financial crisis, maybe. Not sure it was a case of dishonesty or part sheer greed and part not considering the consequences of lending money – the cause of the credit crunch – to people whose financial situation was inherently fragile.
The term ‘furbo’ can be used to refer to other nationalities, I agree. The British were very furbi empire builders and made some mistakes, inevitably.
Part of the problem with dishonesty, as pointed out in the article, is that there are different concepts of what it is in different cultures. What an Italian may consider dishonest, a Briton may not. If you read the other comments here, some from other Britons, you’ll find more examples of what people think is honest and what is not.
The peculiar Italian system has been covered elsewhere on this blog all about Italy. Certainly a dysfunctional nation encourages ‘furbizia’ – we are, after all, only human. Make a system work and fewer people will consider being furbo is necessary.
Not sure what the homicide rate has to do with all this exactly, but I am aware crime levels in Italy are lower than in some other nations. Whether levels of fraud and that furbo crime of corruption are lower is arguable. Indeed, corruption levels in Italy are perceived as being higher than in other nations – see Transparency International for more information on this. Reduce corruption by a) defining it properly b) punishing it and c) removing the need for it. Do this, and Italy won’t be as negatively furbo as it seems to be now.
Note too that furbo is also a positive concept and there are plenty of examples of smart Italians who are furbo in the right way 🙂
Thanks for commenting.
Alex
Jacob says
Alex,
Can I call you a racist and liar? Why did you invent the ”furbo” concept? In no Italian dictionary there s something like that.
Alex Roe says
I don’t think pointing out what is true and is an aspect of Italian culture makes me either a racist or a liar. Go take a look at the reams of GDF press releases for endless examples of Italians being ‘furbi’. Not all Italians are furbi, but too many seem to be. You may have heard of the case breaking today of Campania councillors, past and present, under investigation for fiddling expenses – and other councillors in Italy are being investigated for the same thing. It’s not just politicians either, ‘furbizia’ is everywhere in Italy – from not issuing receipts to corruption and claiming benefits illegally. I imagine you can think of other examples. But the main problem is that Italy’s ‘furbi’ don’t think they are doing anything wrong.
Best,
Alex
PAUL HOWLETT says
Just to say after living twenty years in Italy I know all these sentiments well (,just look at the recent News events in Gubbio where I live )..Furbo seems to be an attribute of local male virility .and though context of the word’s use is important for its meaning ,in the worst cases it seems interchangeable with intelligence.
Alex Roe says
Hi Paul,
Good to see your observations are similar.
I get the impression you do not always agree with ‘furbo’ being a sign of intelligence! Even amongst Italians, one may think a furbo action is 100% OK, whereas another may think the action is nothing short of criminal.
A curious aspect of Italian culture which may hark back to when keeping one’s mouth shut, or not, would prevent one from losing one’s head! The really furbo would ensure some other poor fool lost his or her head, at the same time taking out an enemy.
Cheers,
Alex
Doug Bremner says
Ok now I have read all the comments. Let me start by congratulating you for a great post. Great writers strike nerves and that leads to responses. Next thing is delete the post prior to mine. That is a whacko and does not add to the discusiion. Delete, delete, delete. The other thing is that I think the comment that Italians don’t see their public servants or state as helping them is coRrect and probably based in reality. I never believed this but with my current one pony show the Amanda Knox case have changed my mind. Also look at Commedia all’Italiana where the protagonists run when they see the copps; or get in trouble for stealing a carrot and it turns into a disaster
Alex Roe says
Thanks for ploughing through all the comments, Doug!
Gald you liked the post and it has provoked a response.
I’ll think about deleting the comment before yours, but I think it gives a flavor of how people think, and this may open eyes.
The Amanda Knox case is opening eyes as to how things work in Italy.
I’ll take a look at Comedia all’Italiana, thanks for the pointer.
Best,
Alex
PS Thanks for the Twitter chat on the Knox case too – very interesting.
Doug Bremner says
the other funny thing is I am pretty far along learning Italian but I had never HEARD of this word!! I also only recently learned how to swear, how funny. I did learn the names of some body parts early on though, and not all of them above the waist…
Doug Bremner says
Wow, don’t think i can read all these comments. We have a mixed household and are pretty open about the differing attitudes toward ‘fibbing’. We agree that it is better to teach our kids the more American way, so I told my kids that our family motto is ‘we are Sicilians, but we are honest!;
thanksfordiscussingit says
I don’t think it’s a matter of racism but there is some stereotyping in this post and its comments. Some comments may sound offensive too. But stereotypes sometimes have a degree of truth, as in this case, according to me.
I think that the man of Rome is right when he brings into the debate the formation of the State in Italy and how it has developed till now. The main point for me is that in Italy the State is not perceived as a public space pursuing the common interest. The State often appears as a cast of people taking care of their-own interests while they are generously paid by tax-payers and completely far from the needs and the lives of ordinary people. At the same time they, our representatives, are those who make the rules and they often think that the way to solve problems is to regulate something. So, everything, paradoxically, is extremely regulated in Italy, sometimes in a really abstract way and you often feel stupid in following the rules. Especially, when the people who make them are the first not to respect the law. And when the State doesn’t provide you anymore any other service than the healthcare system (because public school is almost completely destroyed). So, we all have our own tribe, better expressed by family, that protects us and to protect. And sometimes to do that you need to be “scaltro”, I would say in English sharp, or tricky when it becomes being dishonest, because Italy is not a land of fairness and opportunities.
I don’t want to excuse anyone about being dishonest but I think it’s a vicious circle from that is very difficult to overcome. I am the first, for example, to condemn who doesn’t pay taxes but when the State asks to a young self-employed professional to pay thousands euros a year of taxes that person doesn’t earn, on the basis of sector studies, I also understand why people do not pay taxes or try finding other ways.
I guess in the UK the State is more present: there are less rules, people have the perception of a common interest even where it is not regulated, if you have problems, you have benefits, council houses; maternity and young people are supported. I don’t think the difference is in what parents teach to their children but more in the civil society. But maybe I’m wrong…
Alex Roe says
Hi Thanksfordiscussingit,
It’s very difficult to discuss aspects of culture without straying into the realms of stereotyping, but, as you point out, stereotypes often do have an element of truth in them.
What you say about the hazy relationship between the people and the state in Italy is true too, and does go some way towards explaining why ‘furbo’ ‘fesso’ and ‘scaltro’ are everyday Italian words. And yes, there do seem to be some strange rules in Italy, and it is understandable why people should try to find ways around them. The insidious ‘sector studies’ are one classic example which may well serve to encourage tax evasion.
The vicious circle thing is also fair comment – ‘cosi fan tutte’.
I would also agree that the state in the UK, and especially in Nordic companies tries to look after its citizens better. Having said that, healthcare in Italy, well up here in the north, is excellent.
As I have pointed out before, if Italy can overcome it’s propensity towards complexity, and find decent politicians, it can realise its full potential, which is huge. I don’t think it would take too much, mainly some common sense and people at the top who want to do the best for Italy – and not for themselves.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
sciamannata says
You should have mentioned “fesso”, which is the opposite of the specifically-Italian meaning of “furbo”.
I don’t think the definition of honesty is different in Italy: I think there is a certain culture (not applicable to all, as Eddy noted) in which honesty isn’t considered important in all situations, and in fact in some situations it’s considered downright stupid. (This is where “fesso” comes in: the person who acts honestly when dishonesty would have given them an advantage.)
I’m Italian and pretty honest (you have my word — only…), and I hate the furbo/fesso culture. But it’s there and you can’t live in Italy without noticing it.
Alex Roe says
Good point about ‘fesso’, Sciamannata. The concept does exist in the UK too, but I’m not sure we have a specific word for it, but I could be wrong.
It’s true, most Italians are honest, but have, maybe, a tendency towards avoiding ending up as ‘fessi’, more so than in UK culture, perhaps.
Anyway, it’s just something I’ve noticed, and, as you can see from some of the other comments, I’m not the only one who has observed this aspect of Italian culture.
I don’t think it is wrong to note it, and I had read about it many years ago when I came to Italy, but it took me some time to understand whether it was real or not.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Alex Roe says
@Eddy
So, you are going to report me for racism? Since when were facts rascist? You should go report Il Fatto Quotidiano too, perhaps.
As for the statement concerning “differing concepts of honesty”, that’s my observation based on living here for many years. I have no problem with you disagreeing, that’s your right, and I’m happy with free speech, as long as it is intelligent, and does not incite violence.
“Cliff Richard”, which may or may not be his true name, was expressing an opinion, perhaps as a result of a bad experience – you’ll note that I asked him or her to elaborate, but this did not happen.
And I think that if you take more of a look at BlogfromItaly.com, you’ll find that I promote many, many good aspects of Italy too.
I’ve published your comment, so others can debate whether I am racist, or not. I think perhaps the law enforcement authorities have better things to do than to have their precious time wasted by baseless complaints.
Best,
Alex
PS When are you coming back to Italy?
Eddy says
Alex,
I had read through you blog and there are many useful and interesting info.
But the nature of some (many) comments remains, in my opinion, very offensive. And is not a question of free speech. I believe in free speech and the importance of reporting FACTS. But making and publishing this sort of comments serves neither of these purposes.
Alledging that the whole population of a country shares the same distorted concept of a core value of a civilised society is a racist generalisation which denotes narrow-mindedness. It would be like saying that ALL English people are hooligans and binge drinkers. Or that all American are obese, psychopaths and gun-nuts. Or that all Germans are nazis.
I would have agreed with you if you wrote that: “In Italy many people tend to find alternative routes (often illegal) to obviate some of the countries laws and regulations and inefficiencies in the public administration”.
This would not be a flattering comment but I can and I do agree with it. What you wrote went far beyond.
Law enforcement agencies in both countries often waste/spend their time on a wide range of non-life threatening issues.
Kind regards
E
PS: Hopefully will be in Italy at the end of the month.
Alex Roe says
Hi Eddy,
I don’t publish all the comments, and I was in two minds about our friend Cliff Richard’s comment too, but I decided to let it go to give an example of how some people see Italians. It’s good to hear both sides, I feel.
I don’t think there are too many other derogatory comments though.
And I did not say all Italians are dishonest, and I know this is not the case. I’m not sure I went so ‘far beyond’ as you say, and my post came about as a result of reading an Italy guide, as a matter of fact, as well as having seen many, many examples for myself. I wanted to see if others felt the same, or whether I’d got it wrong.
If you still feel you need to report me to the UK and Italian authorities, then so be it. That is your right.
Best regards – and thanks for expressing an opinion – this is also why I do this.
Alex
PS If you are coming to Milan, or nearby, I’d be happy to meet up for a beer and a chat, as long as you do not hit me!
Eddy says
We have very different points of view and I still think you should take more care in choosing the appropriate content for your blog either from users of from yourself. The temptation to advocate free speech can lead to giving voice to “silly” comments rather than constructive discussions.
However, I will be in Milan for business later this year and it would be interesting to meet up for a beer.
PS: I’ll try not to come with an angry mob armed with pitchforks and torches. But I can’t promise it !
Have a good day.
E
Alex Roe says
Hi again, Eddy,
I agree about the silly comments, but we all do it from time to time, and by publishing them, hopefully, those who make them will think ‘hey, did I really say that?’.
Yes, we do have differing points of view, the world would be a dull place if we did not.
I promise to look out for silly comments in future, if you don’t report me to the forces of law and order. And I’ll buy the beer too.
Let me know when you come to Milan regardless.
Kind regards to you to,
Alex
PS How bad do you think the binge drinking problem is in the UK – it does look bad.
boh says
You’re exagerating and insulting, do you know?
Honest people exist in Italy, as everywhere in the world. Being honest is the same here in Italy and Uk. Crazi was dishonest and he was condamned, no one here thinks what you said. Now I understand all those americans stealing at the supermarket in my town: they think it’s legal because something like you said them nothing is illegal in italy. congratulations!
Alex Roe says
Hi Boh,
Exaggerating? Now let me see. In Italy we have:
Mass tax evasion
P3 corruption scandal
Rigged elections
Illegal tipping – you have read Saviano’s book?
Illegal construction
Burning down woodland so construction can take place
Not paying the TV licence fee
Corruption of public sector officials
Politicians who employ family and friends
Others who only employ or give work to friends.
Tender fiddles
Mishandling of nuclear waste
Fiat employees complaining about losing jobs when they spend twice the amount of time absent from work than other workers
Car insurance which is sky high – Why? Because people fiddle.
Schools and other public buildings which fall on kids heads – Remember Abruzzo?
No real credit cards
Loans and overdrafts almost impossible to obtain
San Marino businesses
Swiss bank accounts
The various ‘condoni’
Companies and public sector paying six to twelve months after work has been completed
University graduates paid internship wages to do management jobs
Fiddled exams in universities
Cronyism in universities
Not being given receipts for purchases
Not maintaining school buildings
People dying in hospitals – You heard about the newborn child who died, plus several other kids
Not wearing seatbelts
Talking on mobile phones in cars
Not wearing helmets
Innate fear of being ripped off by others
Mafia
mafia party funding
Personal laws
Huge company failures and no real punishment
Bent judges
True, not everyone is dishonest, but the above list indicates that quite a few have a different concept of honesty to the Anglo-Saxon concept, and I’m sure that with a little thought I could add a few more instances of furbizia in Italy.
As for Craxi, someone in Italy does not think he did anything wrong. A big someone.
If the Americans are stealing from the supermarket, then tell the police. It’s their job to do something about this.
Can facts be insulting? Only if they are not facts.
If you like, I can give you specific examples of all the above, and more than one example of each – but all you need to do is search the www, as I am sure you know.
Take a look around you, read a few papers – Il Fatto Quotidiano would be a good place to start. Look at a few Italian blogs.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Eddy says
Dear Alex,
you are the typical close-minded American who can’t see past his nose and has been so strongly indoctrinated by his government that he truly believes all “American” is good, all “foreign” is bad.
In regard to the list above half if not more happens in the US on a large scale as well, you are just more efficient in the cover-up.
As many like you, you have spent all you life in the same small town, grew up in front of a TV set and only occasionally left to see what’s beyond the US border. You have the same mentality of the 14th century European explorers who first set foot on your land.
I am sure you (or whoever is in charge) will not have the guts to publish this comment, but I am writing it anyway so that at least who reads it might realize how narrow-minded these sort of comments are.
Kind regards
E
Alex Roe says
Hi Ed,
Thanks for your comments. Two small points – one, I published it, so maybe I’m not that ‘small-minded’ after all.
Two, I’m not American! Take a look at the About page to see where I’m from, if you have a moment.
Best,
Alex
Eddy says
Alex,
I must apologise to you. You are not American.
I am Italian, 30, I have been living in London for the past 12 years. During all this time the only person who made similar comments was a man who later also commented about his affiliation with the British National Party. Nobody else.
I have left Italy 16 years ago to study abroad (Switzerland and UK) and then I decided to live and work abroad as well (in UK). I have not left my country because I though it was a great place to live, quite the opposite. I love Italy but at the same time I am deeply critical of the “state of things”. I am not blind to that. My family lives there, many of my friends live there and I am perfectly aware of the problems and issues affecting Italy. After many years living and travelling abroad, I have accumulated enough examples of life in other countries to be able to draw comparisons and see that there is a lot wrong with it.
But your comments in the blog (let alone those from some of the troglodytes who add to it) are not a criticism of the country, nor they help foreigners to understand its true culture and appreciate that land. These are just a list of rants about some of the scandals (or scams) that have surfaced in the news. The way these are reported looks more like the town gazette of Hillbilly Town, rather than the blog of a person who likes Italy, has travelled extensively through it and learnt about its culture and therefore is able to write about it.
Moreover your comments about a “different concept of honesty” are really offensive and racist and not helpful for foreigners other than those who seek to get away with a crime. Also the fact that you publish comments like that of the user named “Cliff Richards” ,which is just a list of insults, denotes a complete lack of professionalism.
If it is true that you are married to an Italian woman, I can hardly believe she is aware of the true content of these pages.
I will report this blog to the relevant authorities in Italy and UK on the basis that is promotes racism and publishes difamatory material.
You may not publish this letter. This is for your personal knowledge.
Kind regards
E
Marco says
Hi Alex,
When was the newborn dying in hospital tragedy? Any link to this? You have an interesting thread going on here and these things should be discussed.
Saluti,
Marco
Alex Roe says
Hi Marco,
There has been more than one case, alas. Most of the info is in Italian, so I hope your Italian sounding name means you can read Italian.
Cases involving the deaths of newborns have occurred in Matera, Messina, Vibo Valentia, and Padova (ambulance was late, apparently) :
http://notizie.virgilio.it/notizie/cronaca/2010/09_settembre/11/neonato_morto_commissione_inchiesta_sul_ssn_invia_i_nas_a_padova,25994790.html
Some info on the recent Messina case, which involved doctors fighting, is here: http://www.libero-news.it/regioneespanso.jsp?id=487350
If you want more, simply search Google News Italy for ‘neonato mori in _______’ plus the names of the places I’ve listed.
And yes, these things do need discussing. But, I have to say that healthcare here in Milan is very good, and, if you know where to go (not privately), very efficient too.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Marco says
Si si, Alex. Posso leggere e capire abastanza bene. 🙂
Thank you for those links. Such craziness. I had no idea about it. 🙁
Lorenza Bacino says
love the list – loads to comment on here. Saviano’s book is particularly shocking. I read it and was stunned…..and italian universities. Don’t get me started….spent time at Venice and honestly had to give up – too exasperating. Have you read ‘In God’s Name’? Sure you have if interested in P2 stuff
gothe says
popular cultural relativism, one cultures idea of honesty is different then another, we need to be tolerant. Hogwash, my thoughts are that their all just too impotent to fight oppression and tyranny in any of its forms because of their disorder. modern Italian historic identity consistently claims a victim standpoint to explain or justify every thing they do; either their appropriation of church land, joining with the Nazis, or colonizing defenseless people, till their current state of being unable to fight the mob and corrupt bureaucracy. Making furbo positive is just another example of this culture disposition twist perception so they still look good because their impotent to change it. they pretend they chose it, and celebrate egotistical individuals who will not and can not sacrifice for a greater good of some kind of civic scene that tyrannizes his fellow man with dishonestly toward him. I hate it when blatant barbarism is presented as some exotic form of enlightenment that demands respect and toleration. this is the real cost of culturally accepted dishonestly, that no one is capable of admitting what’s in front of their face, diagnose the problem and so do something about it.
Cliff Richard says
Snide, cheating, two-faced, lying, noisy, irritating, arrogant, vacuous.
Big mouths and lots of hand gestures and noise, but nothing to back it up.
Living with mamma, and being pampered by her til your 30’s = man-child issues about women.
Bullshit macho posturing and laughable peacock behavior.
Nice food, though!
Alex Roe says
Is Cliff Richard your real name, Sir?
You don’t seem to be much of a fan of Italians, that is true!
Care to share why you think this? Yes, there are examples, but not every Italian can be described with the same words.
The living with mamma thing is rather true though, I’ll give you that. It’s strange to me, but that’s how things work in Italy. Does not necessarily make it wrong.
Thanks for your, er, honesty,
Alex
Cheryl says
My family came to the USA from Luca, Sicily. We grew up with only bits and pieces of the language. There was a word offen used by my grandmother when she would refer to (primarily) a childs behavior. She would say things like . . . Joe, don’t be a bahboo(sp).
I’m trying to find out the correct spelling of the word and the true meaning of it. The inferance was that the behavior was that of someone not too smart.
I would appreciate any information or direction on this.
Man of Roma says
Possibly ‘babbeo’, which is the non dialect, ie Tuscan, word. Babbeo is a stupid person.
On the ‘furbo’ concept. 1) There are many Italies, ie many Italian subcultures (20 regions, in each region from 5 to 10 different sub-cultures, often each town being a totally diverse culture: bio-diversity after all) 2) being ‘furbo’ – with so many variants as our cultures – has been important in an ‘region’ (the Italian state is only 150 years old, differently from the UK, or France or even the US) ravaged by foreign invaders for millennia where the most ‘furbi’ survived within the brutal Darwinian struggle hence the admiration for such ‘winners’. Not that I condone being ‘furbo’. Not at all. But Italy, right because of its beauties – everybody having desired to conquer her – has been a land of woe and emigration. Of course in Greenland there are not so many furbi. But, let’s face it, who would conquer Greenland lol?
🙂
Alex Roe says
Thanks for your suggestion, Man of Roma,
‘Babbeo’ – pronounced bab-bay-oh, sounds good to me. I thought of ‘babbo’ – but it means ‘dad’, and does not mean ‘a stupid person’.
And the explanation of the origins of the concept of ‘furbo’ are interesting too. I do think that there is a lot of distrust between Italians – which is why there are so many family run companies – after all, if you cannot trust members of your own family, then who can you trust?
As for Greenland – no, I’m not really sure why anyone would bother conquering it! But then I’ve never really understood why the Romans invaded the UK! They must have found the climate terrible after Med weather. Maybe the UK was warmer back in those days.
Hope life in Rome is treating you well.
Kind regards,
Alex
Lorella says
Hi Alex! I’m italian and I am sure that ‘babbeo’ means ‘a stupid person’.
Gaetano says
Babbo is most certainly Dad, (an affectionate way of saying it, like Daddy or “pops”) but in some southern Italian dialects, babbo means “dummy”, “putz”, you’re silly… Etc.
Cheryl, your Mum from Sicily would have used it exactly in that context. My background is Calabrese, and the dialect is directly related to Sicilian and Neapolitan.
Ignore “babbeo”… Although, it might be the Tuscan variation.
The word you were thinking was indeed Babbo, exactly like the word for “daddy”, and I remember a running joke (double meaning) within the culture was that when a man had a kid, he became “stupid”!
i.e.: you’d say to people: Congratulations! You’ve become a Dad. (Babbo)
Which would also mean, you’ve become dumb!!
Peter says
Ah, and then there is “furbetto” and even “furbettino” – subtle variations indeed!
AlexR says
Hi Chris,
Thanks for commenting. You are right – being ‘furbo’ is often just plain dishonesty – but the Italian concept of dishonesty is not the same the English, American or German concept of dishonesty.
What is considered downright dishonest in the aforementioned cultures, is regarded as being ‘creative’ and smart in Italy. Which is the point I think I made in the post above.
If you have lived here for any length of time, you will know this.
All the best,
Alex
honestabe says
english / americans honest ?????
italians not ?
my , you have been watching too much tv haven’t you …
i am an honest italian so let me tell you ..
the english are too drunk after 12 noon to know or remember what honesty is ..
perhaps if your wife will stop passing out drunk spread eagle & screwing every italian male in sight you won’t be so resentful …
learn also please how to wash yopurselves , you HONEST english people ahahaaa
you stink of old eggs & baked beans ..
if this ain’t racist ?
i don’t know what is !
imagine living in the filthy hellhole of UK where they’re scrambling to escape …
so funny ..
dirty drunks spreading lies of others ..
honest is honest ..
dishonest is dishonest ..
it’s the same everywhere !
imbecile…
Chris says
“Examples: “What? You mean it’s not legal to take the fruit off the shelf and put it into my shopping bag?” “Honestly, I wasn’t stealing when I told you I would pay you for that (insert object here) then never bothered to fork over the cash!”… the list goes on ad nauseum.”
>>> I’m an Englishman living in Italy, and that’s just wrong ^
Furbo has nothing to do with plain old petty theft, it’s having cunning to gain an advantage, but wouldn’t say stealing fruit is having furbo.
Ciao
AlexR says
Gege’ Bau – as I suspected, I see you understand the ‘furbo’ concept very well! Although, like me, you don’t really approve of it.
This is not a surprise, and I suspect our respective parents instilled the traditional ‘Anglo-Saxon’ concept of honesty into us. Italian parents, on the other hand, instil the Italian version of honesty into their progeny.
I, in my ignorance, expected my idea of honesty to be something of a universal concept before I arrived in Italy. Now I know that it is not.
I’d really like to try and understand how and why these two different interpretations of honesty exist. It’s a curious subject, if nothing else…
All the best,
Alex
PS I hope you continue to find my blog interesting! Cheers!
Gege' Bau says
For ‘un furbo’ to make his way to the head of a queue, there would first have to BE a queue, which in this country is an unknown concept! ;o)
The furbo also makes good use of another strategy here: ‘fare lo scemo per non andare alla guerra’ (pretend to be stupid in order not to be sent to war). Examples: “What? You mean it’s not legal to take the fruit off the shelf and put it into my shopping bag?” “Honestly, I wasn’t stealing when I told you I would pay you for that (insert object here) then never bothered to fork over the cash!”… the list goes on ad nauseum.
Where I come from (New York), ‘furbo’ refers to another type of infamous personality, the Wise Guy!