NOTE that the system for collecting fines within the EC does not seem to be operative as at the date of writing – 11th April 2010.
From 2007, apparently, the DVLA in the UK will receive any fines you have collected in the EC and send them to your home address. They will be in English, but you won’t get points on your UK licence as a result. This is part of a new reciprocal arrangement. It will simplify matters, but means you will not be able to get away with not paying by using the excuse that it was in another language and so I could not understand whether it was a fine or not.
Informally, I am not sure as to what lengths the Italian authorities would actually go in order to deal with non-payment. Current passport checks for those entering Italy from EU are quite cursory, although you could expect problems if you had not paid a fine and then went to stay in the same area of Italy once again, in view of the fact that hotels are required to supply local police with copies of passports. Of course if you receive a fine by way of your countries traffic authorities for an offence in Italy, then non-payment will probably be dealt with in that country.
ANOTHER UPDATE, January 2007 (which is the same as a follow-up to this post):
It’s official, the article in the Telegraph I read while I was in the UK would seem to indicate that Europe-wide traffic fines will shortly be with us. The same article is available on-line here. Although this change comes into effect in March 2007, as some who have read this blog will have noticed, the UK DVLA has already been giving out the addresses of offenders to the Italian authorities so they can send victims a nice little fine.
For some not exactly clear reason a number of people who have left comments on my blog have been ending up with fines for traffic offences whilst driving through Pisa. If you happen to find yourself there in the near future, watch out, because the area into which certain cars are not allowed does not seem to be well signposted.
James says
My wife and I went to Italy for a 3-week honeymoon last summer, we have now received 4 traffic violation notices from Europcar, 1 in Rome, 1 in Florence, and 2 in Parma. Only one ticket has actually made it to us in the mail and it was the Florence speeding ticket for 5mph over for $180. Depending on the 3 others we’re looking at $500-800, plus additional violations could be on the way. The Italian government thinks they’re clever by setting up all these traffic traps, and you know they’re traps when I’ve driven in California for 17 years and haven’t received ONE speeding ticket, and then I go to Italy for only 3 weeks and get at least 4 tickets??? Talk about corruption. But anyways, I used to buy a lot of Italian-made wine, pasta, cheese graters, couches, Ray-Ban’s, etc. Now I figure I need to cut about $500-800 in spending on Italian products, oh, and also never go back to Italy, which will cut $1, 000’s. I probably spend between $100-$300 a year on various Italian made goods. About 25% of that goes to the Italian government as corporate tax, so maybe $50 a year on average. So I figure I have to cut about $700, at $50 a year, cut out a 2nd expensive Italian trip years from now, so I’m going to try not to but an Italian-made product for 10 years. And that’s how you make the Italian government pay for it one way or another. I actually prefer French-made wine, cheese, Le Creuset etc, so I won’t be affected much 🙂
Eleanor says
I would really appreciate any suggestions on how to solve this one. I was on holiday in Aosta in July 2017 with my disabled child. She is a full time wheelchair user and has a blue badge which is valid around the EU.
Another family with a disabled child told us we could freely use the ZTL area, which is also marked with signs bearing the wheelchair symbol, so displaying our badge we did just that for an entire week. We probably drove in and out of the ZTL 20 times over the course of the week.
We hired a car from Hertz and I’ve now received one of these dreaded administrative fees. I’ve contacted the local municipality and Hertz giving copies of my daughter’s badge, our rental agreement, and photos of her in Aosta to prove she was with us. Is there anything more I can do? My family is not well off and we’d be completely unable to pay a fine for every time we crossed into the ZTL.
We’re very concerned about this.
Hertz have not charged us yet as we didn’t have a credit card. They had only two direct debit cards. I don’t know if these can be charged without our consent. But I’m more concerned about the fines themselves.
Thanks.
Ann says
Hi,
I recived through unformal mail a fine back in 2008.
It was for entering ZTL.
Never paid this fine or got any other letter (I chaged place of residance).
Do you think it’s still exist and would be charged from me if I eneter Italy?
Thank you very much!
Ann
Ron says
Hi Alex,
I just got two identical fines (ZTL), from the same town (Pisa) and exact same place (Via S. Ranierino), about 3 hours apart (probably one when i got it and one when I got out).
My questions:
1. Do I have any chance asking them to cancel at least one of them because I really had no idea what ZTL is at the time, and I got two tickets for the exact same offence at the exact same place.
2. They say that if I pay within 5 days from the notification, I can pay a reduced amount (30% off), but I’m not sure what the notification date is – is it the date they printed the notification (Oct 12th), the date it was mailed out by them (Oct 18th) or the date I received it in the US (Nov 2nd)?
3. the letter was not sent as registered mail (it was left in my mailbox and was not signed for). Should I wait for a registered mail?
Thank you!
Ron
Paula says
Hello,
I’ve got a ticket from Italy, Liguria… I have got an email from Hertz company where I hired a car. I tried to find out how to pay a ticket E.M.O. but I don’t have a Login details.
What should I do now? Hertz says that they have nothing to do with it now.
Would someone hep me, please?
Many thanks
Paula
John says
Paula,
Did you receive the actual ticket or just the email notification from Hertz ? If just the email, then the ticket will follow in the mail shortly. You don’t have to pay it…..up to you. In my experience, I’ve been charged (many times) for traffic violations from the rental company (its part of the contractual agreement) and its usually in the ball park of 40-50 Euros. I’ve never paid the tickets and I visit Italy fairly regularly. So long as you’re not planning to live or register a domicile in Liguria you’re ok. Hope that helps 🙂
Shah says
Hi John,
i have received an email notification from Hertz about violation happened in Florence 007-9 e 14 – Circolava in Zona a Traffico Limitat – and it means that i have passed ZTL (also i first time hear about ZTL). I’m very stressed and worrying about this situation.
What you think wow much will cost to pay this fine?
Marina says
Hi
I year ago I recieved an SMS to my cellphone from Avis that I got traffic ticket while enetring a restricted area in Rome.Since then – nothing, not a letter, an e-mail or an actual traffic ticket to my home address. The Avis branch in Rome replied to my email that they only know that I recieved a traffic fine and nothing else, and charged me with 43 euros to give the police my details. I dont know where my fine is and Im afraid that they sent it to a different address or increased the amount.
How can I contact the authorities to finally recieve my fine and pay it?? I want to pay!
Thank you!
Marina
Craig Sewell says
Thanks for your very informative page on traffic fines. I’m from the UK and have just received a fine dating back to a visit to Lucca last year. It was for “circulating in a limited traffic area without authorisation”. It appears to have been incurred the day of our departure (6th Sep 16), after we handed our permit back to the hotel. I don’t know how I was expected to have legally left the city…
The hire car company (Budget) took an admin fee from us last year for the cost of providing the authorities our details. This was allowed under our contract with them.
The date of ascertainment (4th October 16) on the notice appears to be incorrect as it was recorded by camera. I’m guessing the date of ascertainment relates to my identity rather than the infraction. Anyway, this means that the notification was sent 372 days after the infraction.
I’m attempting an informal appeal to the officer in charge at the Polizia Municipale, Lucca Holding Servizi. I’ve asked them to consider the fact that the offence appears to unavoidable and was certainly unintentional. I’ve also pointed out the matter is out of time.
I’ll let you know how I get on.
Craig, Cardiff, Wales, UK
p.s. I can add from my experience that debt collectors in the UK can be told to go away and have no rights to enforce their claim whilst the matter is under dispute. The dispute is only resolved once a Court Order is issued.
Alex Roe says
Thanks for this Craig. Good luck with the appeal which seems justified, although jobsworth types may argue that your permit had expired before you left the centre, hence the fine. Please do pop back and let us know how you get on.
Glad this old post has proven useful once more!
Thanks too for the P.S. info. Useful to know.
Ben says
Hi,
How can I open my own comment in order to ask a question?
Alex Roe says
Just add a comment Ben – don’t ‘reply’ to anyone.
Best,
Alex
Christian Bonnett says
I really hope you can help me.
While on holiday in Florence 4th August 2016, I turned left on a red light, completely unintentionally, but non the less received a fine.
My real confusion however lies here.
The date on the fine notification letter is 30 May 2017, but I received the fine notification yesterday 03 August 2017, three months from the date on the letter and almost a year to the day of the infraction.
What’s more, in regards to payment, it says the following, (verbatim)
Within 5 days from the notification this act it is possible to pay a 30% reduced amount of: €174.10
If the act is paid from the 6th to the 60th day from the date of notification, the amount to pay is: €223.00
In case of the payment failure, the relevant tax authorities will be entitled to recover the half of the maximum amount of the infraction which is: €385.50
This was all under the art.201 of the road traffic code.
Please can you shed some light on my options here as I’m very confused, for one, I’m obviously not entitled to pay the 30% reduced rate as the fine wasn’t even sent out in time for that payment to be an option.
What can I do?
I would be very grateful for any help you offer.
Kindest regards,
Christian
Alex Roe says
Hi Christian,
Have you tried calling anyone and explaining the situation to them? Getting through to someone, in every sense, won’t be at all easy but this does seem very unjust.
If you cannot get through, write to them in English and explain.
There’s not much else you can do aside from contacting a lawyer, preferably one in Italy.
Regards,
Alex
PS Al, who kindly helps out here, may have a better suggestion.
Nikki says
“To cut a long story short, foreign drivers who have received fine notifications beyond the 360 period can write and request that the fine, or fines, be annulled.
With great thanks to Al for all his research into this matter. Shortly, I will publish a letter which people can use to request that these pesky fines are officially torn up.”
Just read through your article and comments. I’m very interested in getting a copy of this letter that can be used to request that these “pesky fines are officially torn up.” Is that posted somewhere here and I just can’t find it? Or could you email me a copy of that letter please? I’d be very grateful.
Some backstory – I traveled to Italy in 2016, apparently got a traffic violation in April 2016, was “identified in August 2016 although I have no proof of that and cannot find any charges to my credit card from a rental car agency, and was sent a letter in May of 2017. If I’m interpreting your article correctly, the time limit is 360 days from April 2016, correct? If that’s the case, I didn’t receive notification until much later, so I’d love to contest these charges and your letter would certainly help! Thank you!
Ben says
Hi, how did you get on with this? I have a similar case and wondering if i can get it annulled.
Date of infraction 2016-09-17
Date of ascertainment 2017-02-16
Date of receipt of fine 2018-02-15
So i received the fine 516 days after the infraction and 364 days after the ascertainment.
Lyle says
Hi,
One more “victim” here trying to get some guidance.
Went to Italy from Canada with my wife for our honeymoon in March 2017. Rented a car with Avis at Rome’s airport and drove with no incident (or so we thought) to Tuscany around different cities and villages.
In May we got a regular mail letter from Avis saying that a traffic violation (nothing more specific than that) had been recorded in or around the town of Grosseto (we didn’t specifically go to that town, but looking at the map we probably drove past it) and that they were charging the card I used to book the car 45 euro as the standard traffic fine processing fee (this means money for Avis, I would still have to pay the fine to the relevant authorities of the town where the violation happened, which would come later in the mail, they said). They took that off the card pretty quickly after we got the letter.
Fast forward to today (June 26th, 2017) we got a registered mail letter (I had to sign for it) from Grosseto dated May 17 saying that I was doing 83 kph on a 70 kph zone. The fine is 133 euro if paid within 5 days from the date on the letter (a reasonable amount, but that ship has sailed), 184 euro if paid 60 days from the date on the letter (this means I’d have to pay this amount within the next three weeks), or 355 euro (seriously?) if paid after 60 days from the date on the letter.
Getting this fine is particularly disappointing because a) I’ve never gotten one in 20 years of driving, and b) before going I made a point to familiarize myself with the Italian style of signs, did a ton of research into ZTEs (we always parked about a 30 minute walk from the main attractions of Siena, Pisa, and Florence in order to not be caught in a ZTE), and eve learn enough Italian to deal with any police if pulled over. Whether we were speeding or not, probably we were, I don’t know, people drive pretty fast there and I didn’t feel I was driving dangerously or particularly faster than anyone (at some point I was doing sbout 110 kph on a 100 kph zone as you do here and the cars behind me were right on my tail and I could see the drivers cussing me out, so everyone must get crazy speeding fines all the time there I suppose).
Anyway, I wouldn’t mind so much paying the 184 euros (plus whatever $40+ wire transfer fee) but this being Italy they made it over complicated (I mean, have you tried to buy tickets for the colosseum or other attractions in that country?!) by having to do it via a wire payment (as opposed to just a regular website where you’d pay it with your credit card like you do an online purchase). My question is, where would I write the details of my incident number, etc since all a wire payment does is simply put my money in their account without them necessarily knowing it came from me? I’d hate to pay it and then having they say I didn’t and then them wanting the extortionate 355 amount.
Also, what happens if I don’t pay? Should I be worried about not being allowed back into Italy/EU countries (this seems excessive over an unpaid speeding ticket but I am going to Norway in December)? If I go to Italy again within 5 years (unlikely) I don’t mind not renting a car if it comes to that (driving there was pretty stressful to be honest), but will there be any other issues?
I’ve heard horror stories about collection agencies, credit scores being wrecked, and garnered wages. So to wrap this up, can anyone with experience advise me as to what’s best to do?
Jay says
Hi everyone!
I just got one of these tickets from Comune di Firenze and I think I will get others.
How did you deal with these ZTL fines? We had no idea these ZTL existed, no one mentioned anything about it (rent a car, hotels, tourist information points).
What a bad example!
Thanks for the help!
Best.
J.
Carl Foulkes says
Hi everybody,
I have just received a Parking fine and another unusual fine which states I entered a toll without paying (even though all the tolls had barriers). these incidents supposedly occurred on 11/03/16 (the day I arrived in Italy for my wife’s 30th) which was over a year ago. the letters arrived through the post and were not reordered delivery. They also threaten doubling the penalty if not paid within a certain time and handing the debt over to a debt agency.
Their is no images to support these accusations and there is no clear indication in the form on how to lodge an appeal.
I will be looking to apply for a mortgage in the next 4-6 months and do not want this getting in the way but I also have no acknowledgment of these incidents occurring so im hesitant to pay.
Any advice would be welcome.
Also the 60 days comes to a close on 02/06/17.
Kind Regards
Carl
Rachel says
Today, June 6, 2017, my husband received four letters from Cedar Financial for four different “traffic violations”. The letter states only that the police in the municipality have sent multiple notices of the violation to no avail. It makes no mention of where this happened, what the infractions were, or any other relevant information except the amount that Cedar is seeking to collect. The total for the four infractions is approximately $1700!! We were in Italy in August 2015 for 16 or 17 days.
This is the first time that any documention or notification has been received regarding these violations. The car rental company never contacted my husband about this. We have no idea what the offenses were, or even where they happened, other than that we visited only Sicily. We stayed in the same apartment the entire time that we were there.
Woah!!
Do you have suggestions as to how to proceed? Twenty one or two months have passed since we were in Italy.
Thank you so much for all of the information that you provide to us adventurers. What a foolish idea to rent a car in Sicily to get around.
Maria says
Everyone might find this article of interest: http://livingwithabroadintuscany.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-will-happen-if-you-dont-pay-your.html
I, too, just signed for my registered letter with 2 speeding tickets of a vague 6-21 miles over the speed limit. These infractions occurred 13 mos ago. Same riggamaroll as everyone else in terms of fines going up after x amount of days, etc etc. Anyways, summary: according to this article, the collection harrassment will end at 5 years after the infraction. I don’t want to pay for these tickets b/c it seems like a racket to me. I will take my chances with my credit, although it’s currently perfect and there is some trepidation about messing up my good score. I will not be visiting Italy again in the next 5 years. Maybe ever.
steve says
My wife and I got bus fines today in Bologna. We had only recently arrived and had purchased a ticket from where we were staying which was about 6 or 7 km from the city. The hotel receptionist explained the ticketing system to us and said that if we buy a ticket we could use it on as many journeys for 75 minutes so we took the bus from our hotel to bologna and then straight away got on another bus to get to central bologna where all the sights are. When we got on this other bus we assumed that it was ok as we were still within the 75 minutes. However, when we tried to validate our tickets in the machine it flashed red like an error had occurred so we figured something wasn’t right. we tried to ask the driver about it or if we could buy a ticket but he just grunted and started to drive off. We therefore started to leave the bus at the next stop so we could try and buy another ticket or figure out what was going on but were ushered back on by a few men who turned out to be ticket inspectors! They alleged that our tickets were not valid in the city and that we had to pay a 65 euro fine. They wanted to see our official documentation and so took details from our UK driving licences and issued us both with fines. He wanted us to pay there and then but we explained we didn’t have enough cash on us to do so and he then stated we could pay by card. However, I still wasn’t happy about doing that so he then said that we could pay later by going to an Italian post office or if we don’t pay within a certain time the fine will go up to 270 euros each and will be posted to us (he got our addresses off our UK driving licences)!
I am a bit miffed about this as we were noway trying to evade and as soon as we realised our mistake we tried to talk to the bus driver to buy a ticket or get off the bus, but he drove off and ignored us! I have a slight suspicion that it was a rouse as it is very strange that he did this and then out of nowhere bus inspectors got on and made a beeline for us!
If we go back to the UK without paying these fines and ignore the subsequent fines that they send us through the post (if they do send any), then what happens? Do they have any powers when we are back in the UK? a total fine of 500 euros for an honest mistake seems utterly outrageous.
Any advice would be gratefully received!
John Beese says
I visited Puglia 2years ago in June.
I was informed by the car rental company that I had been issued with a traffic fine.
Since then I have received no notification from the Italian authorities.
I
I’am again visiting Italy soon and wonder whether there would be any problems
Markus says
Hi there,
Firstly, big thanks for running this website.
Went to Tuscany in october 2016 and recently (march 2017) recieved three bills, 40 euro each, from the rental company. This has been paid (as apparently even if your credit card has been cancelled, the bank will credit your card and just put it on your bill for the new one). So I’m at 120 euros already…
Anyway, I have absolutely no idea what the fines will be for, but after reading here I assume it will be ZTL fines as I know I didn’t speed or park illegaly.
I live in Sweden. Has anyone heard if there’s a local debt collection company who will get involved in these cases in Sweden?
I assume letters will show up eventually and I have to sign(?) for them. Since I believe this i just a scam run by corrupt italians, I do not intend to sign for the letters or pay the fines, and basically just ignore all future letters.
Most comments and answers here are from 2013. Are you aware of any changes or can I just go by the general recommendations on this site and assume that ignoring the letters should be relatively safe?
Best
Markus
Kevin says
I’m in the same boat, got a collection notice from Cedar Financial (in the US) – Nose’s case is in the UK so it may be different. Just tempted to ignore it, but did anyone get dinged on their credit report because of non-payment?
Thank you!
Nikki says
Hi Kevin, we ignored Cedar Financial and after a while, they stopped calling. Nothing ever happened. We also had Hertz refund the administrative fee they charged us for providing our info to the Italian police so we didn’t pay anything.
Kevin says
Thanks! How did you get Hertz to refund the admin fee?
Nikki says
It happened a long time ago as we went to Italy in 2011 but I believe I wrote to Hertz corporate customer service to complain and they refunded us the admin fee. Good luck!
Tyler Goff says
Hi Nikki,
I am also thinking of ignoring Cedar Financial’s claims. I am only worried about it affecting my credit.
Did your credit score get affected by ignoring them?
Thanks,
Tyler
Nose says
Well, I promised I’d come back after a year and tell you what happened to me…
I am not in jail, I received no more letters and as far as I can tell, nothing has happened. Having obtained a mortgage recently, my credit score doesn’t appear to have been affected. I haven’t been back to Italy since and tried to rent a car – so not sure what would happen if I did. Probably nothing.
My advice to anyone who’s received these comical fines is to just ignore them. Saved me a few hundred Euros.
Al says
Hi Nose,
Many thanks for the update.
Al
Raj Malhotra says
Thanks Nose… Thanks Al for the update and reply. Appreciate it.
Ken says
Same, I asked a frined who living in Itlay, he said that is fake.
My cause is:
1) I am not in Itlay , date of the offence metioned at the letter
2) plate No. metioned at the letter doest not match what I rent.
3) The provide a rental contract so called provide from rental company, But it seems I havent seen when rent the car. more importent is there No any signture!!!
Raj Malhotra says
Got a letter (Registered – was dropped in my mail box… did not have to sign it) last week.
It says i was speeding 12 KM above … in 70KM travelling at around 82KM. At Venice.
This happened in 2nd week June 2016. They say they have a photo etc… did not send me any proof though.
If paid within 5 days it was around 125Euros. In 60 days time around 197Euros (Ridiculous rates). More then 60 days 392Euros. There was no way i was going to pay 392 Euros thats crazy.
They gave option to pay through Credit Card and gave the URL for the website.
http:@@www.egov.comune.venezia.it@contravvenzioni@check_ricerca_offLine.jsp
(Replace @ with a /)
Went online and it took me to the webpage where i can pay online using Credit Card. I think they reset the days for me and now i see the charge come up as 195 instead of 397… so not the within 5 day charge and not the beyond 60days charge either. It is 195 Euros for now. That is too much to.
Anyone with recent experience, what happens when you dont pay. Some 2-4-6 years back probably was not an issue not to pay, but what about recent experience. My only worry is about Credit Score & History being affected. I dont want to mess that up.I heard about collection agencies “Cedar” and the other one being “Nivi”, Do they have any authority, can they mess up my Credit Score/History??
One more…My credit card was charged by the car rental for supplying the information to venice dept (55$ or so). Can i get that back or block them from further charging me, because… Apart from the above speed ticket(I did not even think i sped anywhere… i was always behind a car or 2 to avoid speeding).I know of 2 possible charges coming my way for entering ZTL areas. I entered them, and both the times realized it was ZTL area and immediately took the first way out. Probably was in there for 2 min or actually it was less then 2min for sure. But, I know they are coming too. If not today then in another 6 months or so. Can someone please tell me what are the ZTL charges usually…
If I dont pay any of the above then what happens. They have ridiculous charges. It is not right not to pay, i understand, but some one with very recent experience of not paying. Facing the collection agency etc… did it affect your credit score.
Really appreciate some guidance and feedback, especially from someone with very recent experience. It is Nov 2016 there is a possibility that things changed in favor of collection agencies. Dont want to mess my credit score. It is in excellent range. Dont want it touched.
I am not going to Italy for next 5 years for sure… Europe (France, Germany, Austria,Swiss, etc) yes i might be going there in a couple of years… there is a good chance i might. Anything to worry about if i dont pay the above charges.
Al says
Hi Raj,
All the info is on this page.
Nose’s comment below pretty much sums it up.
Best,
Al
Al says
Hi Jerry,
The only repercussion would be a possible attempt from a debt collection agency established in the US to intimidate you into paying. Ignore them.
(Search for the word “Cedar” on this webpage)
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Jerry Robinson says
Nov. 7th, 2016
HI Alex,
We had a rent a car from Avis out of Milan last April, 2016. We drove from Lake Como to the Walled City of Bergamo, Italy. My wife is Handicapped with a severe Hip Problem and has a hard time walking. He brought with us from the USA a Handicap Placard. We parked in a parking spot where we saw no parking restriction signs. We placed our Handicapped hung from the mirror of our rent a car. we were thee about an hour. When we returned to our car there was no parking violation on our window shield. When we return home the first indication we were cited with a parking fine was a fee from Avis for Providing info to the Police Parking Enforcement in Bergamo, Italy. about 2 months later we finally received the parking violation notice. the fee was for 57 Euros if paid in 5 days, 112 Euros paid in 60 days and and a figure of 194 Euros but this was printed in Italian so I do not know what the time frame is? This we feel is extremely very unfair. I tried to E Mail back to the Police in Bergamo, Italy and the E Mail was bounced back to me. To protest the fine they wanted a registered letter with a receipt and it must be in Italian.
My question to you is do you know what the Repercussions for me in the USA if i Decide not to pay this very unfair Parking Violation. I do not want to see that I can not renew my California Automobile Registration or my Drivers License if the fine is not paid? I called Avis in the USA and they didn’t have an answer for me one way or the other but they said maybe I would not be able to rent a car again if I return to Italy in the future.
Manu says
Hello. Great well informed article. I’m Italian living in the US with my husband (Spaniard) and our kids. All of us EU citizens. We traveled to Italy to meet family in 2012 and rented a car under my husband’s name, but I did all the driving. We returned home 3 weeks later and went by our business. Just now September 2016, (although the letter’s date is June 20, 2016) 4+ years after our trip, I received a penalty reminder for an apparent infraction committed in Firenze during our trip. It reads:
— “We hereby remind you that on 01/31/2013 you have been notified of a fine, issued by the CORPO DI POLIZIA MUNICIPALE DI FIRENZE, to be paid within 60 days from the date of receipt of the report. Since no payment or no appeal against the sanction appears to have been made, according to modalities indicated in the report, the fine has become an enforcement order and the amount has increased, according to the Italian Traffic Code, for an amount of $179.02 euros,
Therefore we invite you to pay the abovementioned (yes, it’s spelled like this on the letter) amount within 30 days from the date of receipt of the present reminder following the indicated modalities, in order to avoid further costs provided for by Law and legal actions.” —
According to the document I apparently drove through a restricted area on August 13, 2012, I’m sure I didn’t as I kept an eye for all the signs but, after 4 years really hard to know.
— “article violated / paragraph 007/9 E 14 in REL.A Art. 007 was driving within the limited traffic area without authorization. (Art. 007 C. 9 and 14 Rel.Art.146 c.2)”–
On the back it reads:
–“We inform you that if you do not react to our request for payment, legal proceedings for coercive debt collection will take place, in accordance with international agreements in force with your country regarding the “notification abroad of administrative sanctions. All expenses will be charged to your account as provided by the Art 201 of the Italian Highway code”.”–
I don’t believe this applies to the USA at all.
I had no absolute clue of this infraction until now. I never received the first fine to begin with, which apparently at least according to this letter, was sent 172 days after the alleged infraction took place. My car rental company never informed us of anything either nor any charges appeared on our credit card after we returned home. I don’t even know the initial amount of the infraction as it isn’t mentioned in this letter. I haven’t changed addresses since this trip took place, so there is no reason for not having received the first fine other than it was never sent or got lost in the mail, in which case it makes no difference cause I never got it to begin with.
I guess my main question here is what to do? Is there a way to prove I committed this infraction?
Thank you in advance for any help you could provide.
Manu says
Hi again.
Considering this is the first time I hear of my alleged infraction, can this notification be considered a violation of Art.201 since over 360 days have passed? The law is not clear in that sense, so I should assume this is the first notification I have ever received, which it is, regardless of how many they might have sent prior to this one, right?
Per i residenti all’estero la notifica deve essere effettuata entro trecentosessanta giorni dall’accertamento.
Did I find a loophole?
Thank you for the great article and thank you for all the help you provide.
Manu
Alex Roe says
Hi Manu,
Seems the “Notify me of new comments via email” is not that reliable.
From what you write:
1 – You never received the January 2013 Official Notification sent by registered mail, if it was ever sent.
2 – The September 2016 letter is a reminder letter.
You can only lodge an appeal within 60 days from the date of receipt of the Official Notification, which mentions the appeal procedure and appeal authorities (Prefect or Justice of the Peace).
What to do?
Nothing! Ignore the reminder letter and any (if any) contact attempts from Cedar Financial, a debt collection agency established in the US.
(Search for the word “Cedar” on this webpage)
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Comment added by Alex, not Al seeing as Alex’s system has decided for some reason that is no longer likes Al.
Moshe says
Hi Al and Alex,
I too really appreciate the time involved in your blog, very well done!!!
Quite similar to Steve’s (from New Zealand) case above, I would like to share my case..
Me and my wife visited Italy for our Honeymoon at the end of 2012.
While trying to enter Florence for a Pizza we liked very much,
( Gusta Pizza, highly recommended BTW 🙂 ),
in VIA SENESE we got caught twice in 10 minutes, probably ZTL,
not even knowing we were doing anything wrong.
during mid 2013 (360 Days, and if so i will apeal as you instruct.
I was sure this matter was forgotten, until recently got a DEADLINE REMAINDER letter.
I live in Israel BTW.
So currently i understand apeal is not an option (>>60 Days from official letter),
And my question actually is if to pay, or wait and see whay happens.
I don’t have any plans travelling to Italy in the next couple of years
(at-least until the 5 years from official letter…)
I also looked in the TCM group site, and saw that they do have some local agency in Israel, but im not sure if there are any “international aggrements between the countries…
Thanks a lot again,
Moshe
Al says
Hi Moshe,
If you’ve read Steve’s comment (and my reply), there’s nothing much I can add. 😉
Best,
Al
J H says
Dear Alex
On 9th June 11.30 pm when I was driving my friends car (first time in Europe , not used to driving on the right side of the road,im a Indian resident we drive on left )in Lido-Venice I some how could not judge and entered a no-entry lane and hit two stationary cars causing them small dents. The owner of one of the cars was near by and informed the police even before we could discuss. The police arrived ,as me and my friend could not speak italian we were completely ignored and the entire statement was taken from the car owner and his friend as witness,the present officers did not seem like they had any knowledge of how to deal formally or with paper works and kept calling some other person to know the procedure this whole process took 3+ hours ,then I was sent to venice police station for alco test which gave a result 0.57% on breath analyser ( a trace from late afternoon lunch maybe) as the legal limit there is 0.50%. Again this officer who was escorting me had a discussion with other officers at the station for 1 hours about charges to apply he kept looking at me as if i was some criminal and spoke to me rudely in Italian even though he knew I dint understand a single word,and again took me the place of accident , then told me i have to pay 1500 euros as fine right on the spot.When we pleaded that we do not have so much money with us ,he took my friend to near by police station while i was made to strictly wait by the car for another 2 hours with another junior officer. After that they called me to the near by police station and told me I have 5 days to pay the fine thereafter it will be double ,whatever little interpretation of few sentences was through a junior staff at the police station, the officer who was dealing with the case again started to refer to hand guides and journals and did the paper work for another 3-4 hours ,all this while he would smoke in closed cabin , make jokes at us and gave angry stares and comments. Finally when the paper work was over and i was trying to understand and politely asked a query the officer got up and shouted at me ,came close to me and pushed physically and urged me to sign the papers, until other officer and their boss came in and asked him to calm down.we signed to get over with it and left the place at 1.30 pm on 10th June ,so we were held for 14 hours by the police and literally harassed for no reason even though when we were co-operative and pleading all the time.
The break up of charges were, about 29 euro for entering wrong side,29 euros for calling police assitance /or casing accidet after 12 midnight after , 280 euros for not having EU drivers licenses , 530 euro for driving drunk and another 530 euros caused accident with alco content .Another 300 euro for towing the car to car pound.
I paid cash within 4 days ,got a letter with stamp as receipt ,as I had to fly back .Those 4 days while arranging the money were very miserable.
I have few questions and need advise on the below.
1. Is there any appeal I can make now from overseas ,after I have paid the fine or signed the statemtns?
2. I have already been fined for not carrying a EU license even though they have sent my Indian licenses to Venice suspension department to suspend it ,can I appeal/plead against it so I get it back soon?
3. Can I lodge a complaint from overseas against this overly aggressive and rude police officer who harassed us for 14 hours .
4. Will my passport be flagged for this offence when i reenter EU or Italy ?
Thank you in advance,
J H
Alex Roe says
Hi J H,
Your situation is beyond what this post is about and not being a lawyer, I cannot offer much advice other than to suggest that you engage a lawyer in Italy and speak to the embassy of your nation’s ambassador to Italy. Legal proceedings will likely take a long time (years, maybe) to reach a conclusion and you may not win.
From what you’ve written, you don’t appear to have a good case – you were over the alcohol limit, you hit cars and it sounds as if your driving licence was not valid (which may have invalidated the insurance too).
The treatment by Italy’s police was not too friendly but whether they were joking at your expense (and whether this constitutes an offence) would be hard to tell unless your Italian was very good which you say, is not the case. Maybe the police should have contacted an interpreter but I do not know if they are required to do this – this may be a technicality a lawyer could use to your favour.
I don’t think your passport will be flagged – because you have paid all the fines – but suggest you check this with the Indian embassy because of the drink-driving offence.
In a case like this and seeing as you have paid all the fines due, I’d be tempted to chalk it down to experience and forget it. You should seek other opinions and I recommend you do so.
Best regards,
Alex
Marie HARDING says
Hi Al, I have been reading through ALL your replies and the various scenarios to see if one of them applies to our case. Like the others, we have just received a Notification of Payment Overdue from the Comune di Verona for an infringement of road traffic regulations in Sept 2012. We have no way of knowing what this infringement is as we never received any fine notification until that overdue payment request last week! They calculated the 60-day deadline for payment of a 76€ fine and the total amount to pay now within 20 days stands at 201,38€uros!
The letter gives a website to find out more info (www.policedata.it) as well as the registration No plate and a Chrono No but we need to download the Microsoft Silverlight app to access it. Unfortunately, our laptop’s configuration does not allow this. But I have been given an email address (info@policedate.it).
If there has indeed been an infringement of traffic regulation by us, we are quite prepared to pay the original fine of 76€uros once we know what it was for. But I do not wish to pay the rolled up enormous amout as we never received the original fine notification which should have been by registered post anyway.
Do you think it would be advisable for me to ask them in my email for proof of original fine notification dated 7 Feb 2014 and offer to pay the initial fine if they can’t prove it?
Many thanks for your help.
Al says
Hi Marie,
Have you really been reading through all the replies? 🙂
The Official Notification (for a Sept 2012 traffic violation) dated 7 Feb 2014 is invalid.
Even if it really was sent, it was sent over 360 days after the infraction.
You never received the Official Notification and never had the opportunity to pay or appeal the original 76€ fine.
EURODATA SRL (www.policedata.it) is another debt collection agency acting on behalf of Italian Municipalities.
I wouldn’t waste my time writing to them. I would just ignore them.
Best,
Al
Steve Clark says
Alex and AL,
I appreciate the time involved in your blog, well done. Some observations from New Zealand:
We visited italy in May 2011 following my fathers footsteps 1943/44 (but not in a Tank as he was).
As suggested previously by you, we parked on the outskirts of Sienna, Volterra, S Gimignano etc and walked, wonderful! I was watching for ZTLs and despite getting lost in Mestre avoided them without using a GPS. The VIA SENESE bus lane was the bullet I didn’t see as I cautiously kept right, a lane too far. Perhaps I should have had a tank.
According to the ONLY letter I have received from the polizia firenze dated 26 April 2016:
PAYMENT DEADLINE REMINDER
Infraction: 12 May 2011
Date of Ascertainment: 28 June 2011
Notified of fine: 10 May 2012
I make the days elapsed 365 for notification from infraction and assume they quote the posted time. I never received the Registered letter as I believe it was returned to italy unopened/unsigned. I was in France all of May 2012 so no delivery was possible by the post authorities in New Zealand.
Of course the fine has increased from 120EUR to 196EUR but the language is interesting:
“We inform you that if you do not react to our request for payment, legal proceedings for coercive debt collection will take place, in accordance with international agreements in force with your country regarding the “notification abroad of administrative sanctions. All expenses will be charged to your account as provided by the Art 201 of the Italian Highway code”.
The words LEGAL PROCEEDINGS , COERCIVE and INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS interest me. Advice I have is:
“There are no international agreements between Italy and New Zealand about enforcement of traffic fines. If a New Zealand debt collection agency is trying to collect payment of these, then they can be told that they have no ability to force payment in the courts of New Zealand. There are no treaties between the countries about enforcement of civil or criminal debts. It is possible to bring a claim in the High Court of New Zealand for a foreign debt where there is a judgment from a superior court, but it is a complex matter and would require substantial argument. I would be fairly sure that a debt collection agency would not have the knowledge or ability to do this.”.
There are some particularly nasty debt collectors in New Zealand, like a pit bull dog they will not let go once they bite. Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like an italian superior court needs to be involved and I don’t think a traffic fine qualifies.
Too late to appeal as that avenue expired after the non delivered registered letter, the fine is now an enforcement order it seems. I am “invited” to pay within 30 days of receipt of the letter “in order to avoid further costs provided by Law and legal actions”.
Oh dear , mighty fine words Mr doni but I really don’t feel inclined. Has the train service in italy improved any?
Comments welcome.
Steve Clark
(No relation to General Mark Clark)
Al says
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your comment.
The TCM Group does not seem to have representation in New Zealand.
If you ever feel inclined, let us know. 😉
Best,
Al
Nando Flipse says
If I understand the above info correctly, Steve’s fine is no longer enforceable as it has passed it’s 5 year anniversary by now, right?
Al says
Hi Nando,
The 5-year statute of limitations from the date of the offence is interrupted by any official act relevant to the fine.
Hence usually 5 years from the day they send the official notification via registered mail.
For Steve the 5 years run from the 10th of April 2012.
Best,
Al
Galina Krivitsky says
Alex and Al,
Thank you for your time and so much useful information on this blog! In an effort to piece together the most current information on the topic, I wanted to reach out to you with the following dilemma.
We rented a car from Eropcar in June 2013 (drove through several countries, including Italy). Apparently we received a ticket for violation of Art. 7 C 9 E 14 (“driving in a limited traffic area without authorization”) in Bellagio, Italy on June 30, 2013. While we did not receive the notices (they were sent to our old address that was provided to the rental company at the time) the notices were sent as follows:
1. First Notice of Payment – November 10, 2014
2. Second Notice of Violation – January 28, 2015
3. Third Notice of Violation – March 16, 2015
Additionally, Europcar provided confirmation of our rental on March 27, 2014. We did not receive any of the above notices and only found out about this ticket when we were contacted (by phone and letter) by an local collection agency in U.S. attempting to collect the fine on behalf of Italian police.
The original fine was 80 Euros and the collection agency now wants $396 to settle the debt. My questions are as follows:
1. Do we have any grounds to contest the fine since the first notification was sent on November 10, 2014, more than 360 days after the ticket was issued (6/30/2013)?
2. Does the “ascertainment date” mean the date that Europcar confirmed that we were the drivers of the car? It is unclear to me in which code section of the Italian highway code the “ascertainemnt date” is defined – is it the date of the violation or the date the identification of the owner of the vehicle is confirmed for foreign drivers (as stated on the EMO website)?
3. Do we have any appeal rights or has the time limit passed judging by the fact this is now in collection in U.S.? What would be our chances to appeal this or try to settle with the Italian authorities without paying the highly inflated ticket price (we are not disputing the ticket as it is our car based on the photograph of the license plate provided by the collection agency).
Any information on the legality of this ticket based on the statute of limitations for notification or our appeal rights would be much appreciated.
Sincerely,
Galina
Al says
Hi Galina,
1. The “Notices of payment” are unofficial notices.
Anyway, …
2. The EMO mislead foreign tourists when they claim that they have 360 days from the date of their identification to notify the fine.
Article 201,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Violations Notification) states very clearly that the 360 day notification time limit runs from the date of the traffic violation.
The word “ascertainment” – mentioned 5 times in Art. 201,1, – ALWAYS refers to the ascertainment of the traffic violation (by means of a traffic camera, speed radar, …on the day it was committed!)
The concept of “subsequent identification” applies only to Italian residents.
3. You had 60 days from the date of receipt (of the notice of violation) to appeal.
The EMO have now put the matter in the hands of Cedar Financial (or Way Back – members with Nivi Credit/EMO of TCM Group International, “a unique global alliance of local debt collection agencies).
Just ignore them.
They have no enforceable power other than harassment.
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
Read February 25, 2011 at 8:37 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30162)
Best,
Al
Galina says
Al,
I did get Cedar Financial to acknowledge that our credit will not be affected in the U.S., however, what future penalties might we have with (i) our car rental company, (ii) Italian police or (iii) other countries in the EU, if we visit Europe in the future? Is there some sort of centralized computer “system” where our names will be entered and we can be fined (or worse) if ever stopped by Italian police (or police in other European countries)? Is there a time limit after which these fines no longer apply/show up in the “system”? While I would hate to throw away money if none of this will affect my credit in my home country, I’m wondering if a few hundred dollars is not worth the headache if the consequences could be more serious if we return to Italy (or Europe in general) in the future.
Thank you again for your time.
Best,
Galina
Al says
Galina,
No “system” other than the one at Cedar.
If you really wish to make a donation, make it to a charity of your choice.
Al
Dan says
Ciao a tutti
Thanks Alex and Al for a brilliant blog. Lots of very useful information about a very tricky subject area.
Has anyone ever received a ZLT fine, not paid it, not appealed it and ignored all letters regarding it? I received one a couple of years ago regarding an alleged violation in October 2013. I have since ignored the few letters that have arrived and I’m now interested to see what other peoples experiences of doing the same have been? Has the debt collection agency in the UK that it eventually gets passed onto held any clout in terms negatively effecting your credit history? I am planning on moving house in the next couple of years and I’d hate this to get in the way of a mortgage application.
Many thanks in advance for any information that people are able to offer.
Dan
Al says
Ciao Dan,
Sure, many have ignored ZTL fines.
I’ve never heard of a UK resident being pestered by a debt collection agency.
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30020)
Read February 25, 2011 at 8:37 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30162)
Best,
Al
saurus says
Today it is April 2016 and I just received a letter from Florence’s municipal police – for a parking infraction I committed 5 years ago… they want .. $170 euros. oh well, letter is going in the garbage and they can send me another in 2021.
oh, and I will not heading back to Florence.
Considering tourism is the only thing keeping Italy fiscally alive perhaps they should reconsider their treatment of tourists?
Nicole Nguyen says
I APPLAUD Al. The Italian traffic enforcers are all crooks. We will NOT return to Italy again after the distaste of our Italy trip in 2011 when we were fined for driving in the bus lane in the last few minutes before my husband arrived at the rental car company in Rome to return our car. If Italy were smart, they would review their highway robbery rules fining tourists heftily for minor infractions such as driving unknowingly in their public transportation lane, or in ZTL. My memory of driving in Italy back in 1993 was so stress-free and pleasant compared to the constant fear of traveling in the ZTL each time we went to a new town in 2011. They will not get our money again.
Nikki Nguyen says
Hi Adrian, Alex, Al,
I elevated the issue of the admin costs the rental car company charged us to Hertz’s HQ (if my memory serves me correctly that we rented car from Hertz for our Italy trip) in the US and was able to get them refunded. However, it took me some time to find Hertz’s senior management contact info in order to send my complaint so you might need to do some research yourself. In my experience, if you can’t get a satisfactory response from front line customer service, then keep elevating it to higher management and eventually they will resolve it for you. Best of luck and hope everyone has a GOOD Friday!
Adrian says
Hello Al
Well done to yourself and Alex on such a great resource. I live in Ireland, and I too have fallen foul of these dastardly ZTLs, this time in Bologna in July 2014. I was hit with 2 “administration fees” of €42.70 by Avis for offences that happened just a few minutes apart. I never received either of the 2 fines from the local police in the mail. So I am very annoyed that I have been charged for a “service” that I never received, another example of a rip-off for which Italy has sadly become infamous. I have been chasing up these admin fees with them for well over a year, but they tell me they will only do so when I can provide them with proof from the issuing authorities that the fines were cancelled. So if I am to get my money back, I must contact the issuing authority in Bologna and ask them to cancel 2 fines that I never even received!
While I am determined to explore every possible avenue in an attempt to get satisfaction (it’s the principle of this more than the money itself), I am unsure what to do at this point. Is it worth my while taking my grievance higher within the company, or even going as far as the European Car Rental Conciliation Service? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Regards
Adrian
Alex Roe says
Hi Adrian,
Thanks for the compliments – lots of time has gone into this post, and Al has helped out enormously too (Big thanks to him, as always) and I know it’s become a little messy but the info is often here for those who care to look.
Re your issue, first, if I were you, first, I’d attempt to take it higher within the car rental company (it’s not right to be charged for fines that were never issued but they may argue that they still had to do the admin work) and if that does not work, have a go at taking it to the ECRC Service – probably not a bad idea to bring this up with them seeing as rental car users tend to be hit with these fines very often.
Really, the rental car companies should warn people about the ZTLs but as far as I know, they do not – well, one did not tell me about the ZTL issue when I hired a car in Tuscany a few years back.
If you do take this further and have a spare moment, please let us know how you got on – always useful to know and, you never know, it might convince Italy to sort matters out too (But breath holding not advisable!).
All the best,
Alex
Ron DAllegro says
Hi Alex,
Incredible job on this site over the years. Iam from the US, and visited Italy May 5, 2015, and now May 19, 2016, received a speeding violation in Ponte D’Arbia.
I see your site mentions about the 360 day limit, also mentions of when they received personal info. Is this a payable ticket, or has time run out?
Where or how would one find out when the info was received from car rental.
Also, if I do have to pay, is there a website that I can pay on line or with Credit Card? or is the only way with a bank wire.
Thanks
Ron D.
Al says
Hi Ron,
The fine must be SENT (not received) by registered mail within 360 days of the alleged offence.
Was the speeding violation sent by a debt collection agency or the local police?
Did you receive an unofficial Notice of payment or the official Notification sent via registered mail? (Detachable yellow card)
The official Notification mentions the appeal Authorities (Prefect and Justice of the Peace).
Does the letter mention a “date of ascertainment”?
The “date of ascertainment” is the date at which the police receive the driver’s details from the car rental agency.
If the fine was sent by the local police, they probably have not set up a fine payment website.
Read the information at the top of this page and April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment (http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
DH says
“Really, the rental car companies should warn people about the ZTLs but as far as I know, they do not”
Yes, they obviously should warn us because ZTL infractions are impossible to avoid if you drive in an Italian city. And this is why they don’t warn us – because if we knew that we were guaranteed to be harassed by Italian authorities, with information provided by the car companies to whom we entrust our private details, then we just might reconsider renting a car at all. I’ve called rental agencies in Italy when I’ve received infractions, and they are never, ever helpful. I will never rent a vehicle in Italy again.
Adrian says
Hello Alex/Al
A quick update from my posting in March. I took my grievance further within the company. Lo and behold, I managed to get one of the charges fully refunded and also a rental voucher equal to the value of the other. Overall it was a satisfactory result; persistence does pay off, if you have the patience. Keep up the good work!
Adrian
Jackie McCaughtry says
October 2015 we traveled to Italy. We rented a car from Hertz Italia and have since paid Hertz many Euro for service fees for ZTL infractions in Florence and Rome. In both cities our hotels/apartments were within the ZTL zones. I am disabled and had my placard in the rental at all times.
In Florence we parked in parking spaces in front of the apartment but was never sited probably because of the placard (also the marked handicap spots were always filled with delivery trucks etc). We did receive 3 tickets within 10 minutes of each other on the same day for driving in a ZTL zone. I have proof of disability, hotel confirmations from within the ZTL, and tickets clearly show a lost driver going in circles. 🙂 In Rome, we drove straight to our apartment in the historic district and parked in a handicap space. We did not move the car until we left Rome for the airport. We received 3 more tickets from there according to Hertz Italia but have not received the notification from police as yet.
Another kink in my story is that Florence sent their notices to me by registered, return-receipt mail, but our post office did not get signatures. They left them in the mailbox with the registration card still attached. How does that affect the process? I cannot appeal without the information in the notices. Can they do anything about it if we just pretend we never received them? The fear of them being so corrupt in not considering valid reasons for dismissing the tickets has me thinking terrible thoughts. 🙂
My problem (besides fearing corrupt or non-caring Prefects) is the appeal form is in Italian and difficult to figure out what information they want where. I have translated the form, but some things do not translate well.
I am preparing an appeal to the Prefect, but every article I read online says they do not care and is almost useless to appeal. I am afraid that if I make one mistake filling out the appeal form that the Prefect will toss it and have a flimsy excuse to do so. Does anyone know how to fill out the form properly? I am fine with most of it other than the personal info section as it is very confusing (perhaps on purpose?)
Here is a portion of the form…
Il sottoscritto ________________________ nato a _______________________________
il __________ residente a _________________________ in via ____________________
______________________ nr. _______ con domicilio presso ______________________
____________________________________ in quanto destinatario del verbale di cui all’oggetto, notificato in
data_________,
Anyone ever successfully filled out one of these??? Thanks for any help or advice you can offer in dealing with this! Jackie
Al says
Hi Jackie,
First, answer these questions:
1 – Were you, Jackie (the disabled person), the holder of the rental agreement of the vehicle or a passenger in the car (in Rome & Florence)? Were the Florence tickets sent to you?
2 – When did you receive the official (registered) notifications for the ZTL infractions in Florence?
3 – The Florence notifications were sent by EMO (European Municipality Outsourcing – a division of Nivi Credit Ltd ). Right?
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Al says
Jackie,
I’ve just realised that you left your comment almost two weeks ago.
Either your comment was published only yesterday or I was notified by email only yesterday.
A glitch in the system?
Anywho, here’s my follow-up comment.
If you read the answer to FAQ n°6 ( http://www.emo.nivi.it/Faq.aspx ) on EMO’s website, you will probably find as many different versions as there are languages.
Those nitwits at EMO continue, as always, to demonstrate great professionalism and rigour.
By relying on the Italian version, I would write an email (in English) to EMO (infoemo-en@nivi.it ) to have your fines number XXX, … cancelled.
Write a few words stating that you are a disabled placard holder and that you were in the car when the violations occurred.
Attach to the email:
– Both sides of your disabled parking permit (with name/surname/expiry date);
– Identity document (ID Card) of the disabled person;
– Identity document (ID Card) of the renter of the vehicle;
– The 3 notification letters.
Follow the same procedure when you receive the notices for the ZTL infractions in Rome.
In 2012, over 300 (surely more by now) Italian municipalities (including Florence & Rome) had outsourced the collection of fines to EMO.
Al
Jackie McCaughtry says
Hi Al….
Not sure what was going on with the post. Maybe the delay was because I am new to the blog.
To answer your questions…
Yes, I am he disabled placard holder.
No, I was not the registered person on the rental agreement. It was my husband who was always with me.
I received the notices about three weeks ago, but the registration cards were not signed and were left in my box with the cards attached. So, they have no proof that they have been received.
After contacting the apartment rental company (who rented us an apartment within the ZTL, I was told that they could not contact the police for me because they were not a hotel. They did call he police who sent them a form to forward to me and a list of documents to include. I emailed them the form and documents over a week ago but have heard nothing.
I will contact the EMO as well. Since my post, we have received a notice from Hertz Italia that we received a ticket while in Lucca as well. Hopefully, I can contact the EMO on that one as well.
Question…I believe one or more of the tickets was for driving in a lane intended for public transportation or something to that effect. Would that be covered with the disability passenger exemption?
Thanks so much for your assistance and advice!
Jackie
Al says
Jackie,
“So, they have no proof that they have been received.”
True, but the EMO, knowing full well that postmen often leave the registration card without getting a signature, disregard this “minor inconvenience” 🙂 , will send a reminder letter (same amount), possibly a last reminder letter (amount increased) and then will usually transfer your “debt” to a collection agency established in your country of residence.
Read February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment.
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012
“Would that be covered with the disability passenger exemption?”
Yes, as you can read on the EMO’s website (FAQ n°6): “Vehicles carrying a disabled person may enter Limited Traffic Areas (Z.T.L.) and use public transport reserved lanes…”
Since you have a valid reason to have your fines cancelled, I would:
Florence
Send the email to the EMO.
There seems to be at times poor coordination between the EMO and the Municipal Police.
Mention that your husband was driving and that you were in the car when the violations occurred.
You could also attach booking confirmation from your hotel within the ZTL.
Rome & Lucca
Same procedure.
(Lucca has also outsourced the collection of fines to the EMO)
Al
Jackie McCaughtry says
Disappointing! So far this is what I have heard from the EMO…
Dear Mr. McCaughtry,
following your message please be informed that nowadays we have just the three fines issued by the Municipal Police of Florence. For these 3 fines, as explained in our previous email you have to lodge an appeal within 60 days from the receipt of our letter, written in Italian, toward the Prefect of Florence.
Regarding the fine from Lucca, to date, we are not able to provide you with some further information about it because Municipal Police of Lucca is still waiting for the communication of your personal data from the rental company in order to proceed to the ascertainment of the infractions.
Unfortunately there is no deadline clearly stated by the Highway Code concerning the transmission of the personal data of the violator to the municipal Police if it remains within 5 years before expiring. Then there are 360 days for the Municipal Police to notify the fine to a foreigner, while for an Italian resident the time is 90 days.
These notifications will be dated and sent (to the address communicated to the rental company) within 360 days from the ascertainment date indicated in the “notice of payment”.
Finally, please be informed that you will be able to pay the reduced amounts by 30% within 5 days from the day of receipt of the official notification by registered mail.
Regarding the fine in Rome our society doesn’t manage the fines on behalf of the Municipal Police of Rome, therefore in this case we recommend you to contact directly the Competent Authorities.
Anyway note that the appeal against the fines must be lodged to the competent Prefect (which is different for each Municipality).
Best Regards
S.G.S.
Contact Center
Nivi Credit Srl
Via O. da Pordenone, 20
50127 FIRENZE
Phone +39 055 3440390
Al says
Jackie,
The EMO? They are just a bunch of (lazy & greedy) scoundrels!
It seems that now they do not even bother to cancel your Florence fines after you’ve sent them all the relevant documentation about your disability.
They require you to write an appeal letter in Italian to the Prefect.
Why don’t you reply by writing something like this:
“The Emo states (IN ITALIAN) on its own bloody website (http://www.emo.nivi.it/Faq.aspx) that, in order to obtain the cancellation of the fines, I must provide you with all the relevant documentation. Why don’t you carry out your own instructions and cancel these fines, as you’ve already done in the past.”
Copy/paste the answer (IN ITALIAN) to FAQ n°6 on EMO’s website and put the paragraph about Firenze in bold.
“I veicoli intestati e/o al servizio di persone disabili possono accedere alla ZTL. […] in tutti gli altri casi, sarà necessario presentare ricorso all’autorità territoriale competente.”
Al
Jackie McCaughtry says
Al…
I will respond to them regarding their comments on Rome and Lucca, but in their FAQ #6 this is what they say about Florence…
3) CITY OF FLORENCE – SIRACUSA If the owner/renter of the car is the disabled person or if the disabled person was a passenger of the car, you need to lodge an appeal to Prefect of the city in quesiton, within 60 days from receiving the official notification of the infringement by registered mail with return receipt, enclosing the following documentation: –
I do not understand why they cannot cancel the fines in Florence prior to an appeal to the Prefect. Makes no sense that they can do it for some cities and not others!
Thanks! Jackie
Al says
Jackie,
I know what they say in their English FAQ n°6 about Florence.
But, as I mentioned before, the EMO are so unprofessional that “you will probably find as many different versions as there are languages.”
In their Italian (& Spanish, Portuguese, German, …?) FAQ n°6 about Florence they write that you can cancel the fines prior to any appeal by following the procedure I outlined in my March 9, 2016 at 9:19 pm comment.
In their English (& French, …?) FAQ n°6 about Florence you have to lodge an appeal to the Prefect.
“I do not understand why they cannot cancel the fines in Florence prior to an appeal to the Prefect. Makes no sense that they can do it for some cities and not others!”
They can and have done in the past. If necessary, in agreement with the Prefecture.
But why miss the opportunity to complicate your life and compel you to write a letter in Italian, a language you don’t master.
Rome
It seems the EMO do not manage the Rome fines anymore.
But their outdated FAQs still mention Rome. What a surprise!?
In a last ditch effort, write to them that you have followed their FAQ n°6 instructions in Italian (Spanish, Portuguese, German) and to, please, make your life easier by cancelling these Florence fines.
Copy/paste the answer (IN ITALIAN) to FAQ n°6 on EMO’s website and put the paragraph about Florence in bold.
Al
Jackie says
Al…long time no response from il Prefetto di Firenze on our appeal on the fines. Today, I finally received a letter from them, but I cannot read it as it is in Italian. The online translators make little sense when I type it in. Here is what the letter says…
“Si comunica che il Prefetto di Firenze ha archiviato il verbale di accertamento n. _______ del 19/10/15 veicolo targato EZ010xx, con Ordinanza n. 10583 – Prot. n. M_ITPR_FISPC0008349_____
Distinti saluti
il Funzionario Responsabile
_______________________”
I have no idea if they have filed it and are considering my case or if it was taken care of. Could you please shed some light? Or perhaps one of your readers is familiar with this. Thanks! Jackie
Al says
Jackie,
At long last, they have dismissed your ticket n°…
Congratulations! Time to open a bottle of fizzy spumante. 😉
Al
Nose says
Hi Al,
Thanks for an incredibly informative blog post on what seems like a bewildering subject.
I’ve tried my best to comb through the hundreds of comments above and I can’t see an exact replica of my situation in the last couple of years. My situation is:
– I’m a UK citizen and travel to Italy rarely. I do however travel in other EU countries regularly.
– Rented a car in Verona, July 2015.
– Got 3 x admin fees of €50 on credit card September 2015. Paid them, didn’t contest with CC company. A week(ish) later, received notifications of these admin fees via email from rental firm. One notification arrived in the post (not registered) – a photocopy of a speeding fine from Brescia Province sent to the rental firm, in Italian. It was not a demand for money, simply a notification.
– January 2016, receive 2 x registered post letters (‘Notification of contravention of the highway code’) from Polizia Locale Mantova for a ZTL, in English, demanding €80 each, increasing to €105 if not paid within 5 days, which is impossible, as the letter is dated 10 days ago. Both have pink A.R. detachable cards on the back of the letter, but my postman just put them through my door. I did not sign.
– I am yet to receive a formal request of payment for the third fine from Brescia.
Now, I’m aware of only one escape route here from paying these insane fines – I did not sign for the letters. There were 189 days between the ‘offence’ and me receiving the registered notification, so I can’t claim they took too long. I really don’t want to pay. And I really don’t want to have to appeal or write letters in Italian. So, as there is no proof I ever received a notification or demand for payment, can I just ignore these demands and be safe in the knowledge I won’t get arrested, robbed by bailiffs, refused entry to Italy or other EU countries, or refused a hire car? I understand that even though the rental company has my credit card details, they cannot or will not pay the fines on my behalf without my authorisation – is this still the case in 2016?
Hoping your can help.
Many thanks.
Al says
Hi Nose,
It seems to me you’ve already made up your mind about the issue.
Who am I to make you change your mind. 🙂
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Nose says
Thanks for your reassurance Al. At least I think that is reassurance!?
An aside, but if this helps anyone else, here are two links about the UK’s relationship with EU rules on passing driver data between countries for offending motorists:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/driving-offences-abroad.html
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2949229/EU-approves-cross-border-fines-s-revealed-500k-British-drivers-dodge-French-speeding-fines.html
It seems until 2017, the UK, Ireland and Denmark have no obligation to share driver data with other states. Even if your data is shared, it seems questionable as to whether the other state can legally chase you for money.
I shall set myself a calendar reminder to come back here in a year’s time and report what happened. That’s if I’m not in jail.
Bart Brady says
Thank you very much. That is what I needed to know. Again, thanks to you and Alex for your help for us harassed residenti all’estero.
Bart
Bart Brady says
Hi Al
Thank you very much for your response. I have indeed downloaded(again) the Decision using the link you provided. It is the precise phrase “calculated unambiguously from the date of the infraction” that I am looking for and cannot find. Can you please confirm that that phrase is not in the Decision? Sorry to impose on you by pursuing this further.
Best wishes
Bart
Al says
Bart,
That phrase is part of my translation of the Italian sentence:
“Il caso di residenti all’estero il verbale dev’essere notificato entro 360 giorni dall’accertamento, calcolati inequivocabilmente dalla data dell’infrazione.”
–> For the resident abroad, however, the fine must be notified within 360 days of the ascertainment, calculated unambiguously from the date of the infraction.
You can still find it on the ADUC (Association for the Rights of Users and Consumers) website.
http://sosonline.aduc.it/scheda/multe+violazioni+al+codice+della+strada+verbale+sua_12880.php
Unsurprisingly the lawyers at ADUC agree with the Judges of the Italian Constitutional Court.
A simple reading of Art. 201,1 leaves absolutely no margin for interpretation!
Al
Bart Brady says
Thanks to Alex and Al for this most helpful website.
My case is the standard infringement of a residential zone. The reference to the Decision 198/1996 is relevant to my case and I wish to quote it in my defence. I have used the link to the Constitutional Court website and located the relevant Decision but I cannot find the reference to the 360 days time limit applicable to a foreign resident being ” calculated unambiguously from the date of the infraction” in that Decision. (The text is in Italian and I don’t have the language but I have scrutinised the text very closely for the Italian words quoted on your website.) I know I must be missing something. Can you possibly help please?
Bart
Al says
Hi Bart,
If you have downloaded the right Decision of the Constitutional Court, you cannot miss the relevant passages on pages 3 & 4.
Read July 29, 2013 at 9:37 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-36195)
Best,
Al
Mark says
Quick question. I was traveling in Southern Italy this summer (Tropea area) and recently got a TLZ ticket by signed letter. I want to pay and have tried but the wire transfer information they provided is not accurate. Local US Banks have not been able to help. I have sent numerous e-mails that have gone unanswered. Comune Di Tropea does not provide a credit card options. My question is…can I just send an International Money order by registered mail with all the fine information? Thanks, Minnesota Mark
Jun says
Thanks all for this very useful blog post and comments. I found it really helpful!
However, I seem to have a bit different story and would appreciate your help.
My friend and I were in Italy as exchange students for 6 month, thus had accommodation and registration in dorms.
In February 2013 we visited Pisa by the car, rented by my friend.
The visit was on 02/02/2013 and 8 days later we left Italy because our studies were over.
Everything was fine and quiet, but my friend decided this year to return to Italy to do his PhD at the same university we were before, and basically he is staying at the same dorm again.
Recently, he received a letter about ZTL violation in Pisa on 02/02/2013.
This letter was signed and sent on 25/11/2015 and he had to sign the confirmation that he received it.
In this letter, it states that he was notified before, and that 60 day period ended long ago, so the fee was doubled and now he must pay it in 30 days period.
Unfortunately, there were no previous letters, he didn’t receive anything before. I assume, that they sent these letters to the dorm, but he wasn’t there obviously. And there’s proof that he was not in the country until recently.
In this letter, there’s a table with the car’s number, sum of the fee (slightly over 200 euro) and these dates:
Data Del Verbale: 02/02/2013
Data Notifica: 05/04/2013
— And just for reference again, this letter was sent on: 25/11/2015
Was the first notification, that he basically had never seen before effective?
Can he still appeal with the reason of 360 days? Or at least return to the previous fee, before it was doubled?
It is unfair, he really didn’t get anything before and now he seems to be put in the situation when he needs to pay the double fee, with no possibility of any kind of appeal.
I’d deeply appreciate your advice. Thanks!
Al says
Hi Jun,
I guess it can be argued that the first notification was valid.
In February 2013 your friend gave an Italian address to the rental agency.
He was notified in a timely manner (after 2 months) and probably never made any formal change of address.
And even if that were not the case, appealing against this ZTL fine would just be too expensive.
I imagine your friend is now officially an Italian resident and will be for the next few years in order to complete his PhD.
This is rather unfortunate, but I would pay and move on.
Best,
Al
James McCord says
Hi,
I have read through the comments and not quite sure if I can find a storey quite as similar as mine but basically, I went to Italy in Huly and rented a car from maggiore. All was fine. Came back, great no problem. Then about a week ago I received a letter and when I collected it from the post office it was from the Firenze police.
It says ‘violation of the Highway Code report’ – basically it’s a very formal letter which does seem very authentic. It goes on to say I am getting fined 169 euro + 28.26 for notification. It also says I am to be deducted 3 penalty points from my license.
I don’t know what to do. It says if I don’t respond in 60 days it increases and a new report shall be issued. The offence was for exceeding the limit by 11kph.
Surely then can’t deduct points from me because there is still no reciprocal agreement between the uk and Italy, but the fine I am not so sure off. Please please help. Tried contacting local consulates but they said they can’t help due to it being issued by the police directly. Thanks James
Al says
Hi James,
The police might hand the fine over to a UK debt collection agency.
Art. 142,8 – Italian Highway Code, speeding by more than 10km/h up to 40km/h over the limit: –> Fine: from 169 to 679€ and 3 points deducted on the driver’s driving license.
Art 126-bis – Failure to provide the driver’s details: –> Fine: 286€ (up to 1142€).
Read January 24, 2011 at 8:42 pm comment.
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29876
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Nicole says
I just want to thank Al & Alex for all your help to all of us on this excellent website. Al, it was incredibly helpful and kind of you to provide such useful information about the Aosta Traffic Police Station to Paul to resolve his issue and restore his peace of mind. You have done a GREAT service to help your fellow travelers the world over who have had the misfortune of getting entangled with Italy’s draconian traffic laws of late and we are GRATEFUL to you. KUDOS to YOU, Al!
Alex Roe says
Thanks for the thanks, Nicole and sure Al will appreciate your kind comment too – it’s good to hear that it does occasionally bear fruit and that the information here is public should help others too.
Warm regards,
Alex
Al says
Kind words are always appreciated.
Thanks, Nicole.
Al
Paul Prizeman says
Excellent news chaps!
I telephoned ‘Aosta Traffic Police Section – Fines office’ and spoke to a very helpful lady who spoke very good English; she requested a copy of my car registration to be emailed across for inspection.
She dealt with it very promptly (the same hour); I am now in the clear and can return to Italy without the fear of being hauled off in front of my crying children and embarrassed wife!
Thanks again for all the help
Yours gratefully
Paul
Al says
Thanks for letting us know.
I’m glad that things worked out.
Kudos to the ‘Aosta Traffic Police Section – Fines office’!
Al
Alex Roe says
Excellent news indeed, Paul! Very glad to hear this – well done, sir.
Also good to hear you can return to Italy without fear of being arrested thus causing distraught kids and other half!
As for the help, you are most welcome.
Alex (not helpful Al)
Amber says
Just received two order of payment by Lucca for “circulated in limited area” in 2013, the fine is 479.70 euro in total. I wrote the to infomo-EN@nivit.it saying that I would appeal. Hate to have to waste time on something so annoying – don’t even know when and how this happened. Don’t want to go to Italy anymore, the people are mostly nice, but the government and authorities are not at all friendly, or even reasonable. If I get a reply I will come back here and share.
Paul Prizeman says
Dear Alex,
I have read through your blog and cannot find anything relating to my situation and am hopeful that you can provide a little advice…
Four Months ago I was travelling to Italy with my family (in my personal car) and was pulled over after emerging from the Mont Blanc tunnel on the Italian side. I did not have my car registration document with me and was issued a fine of 28 Euros….
Three days ago I received a recorded delivery letter from the Italian police telling me i have to pay ~500 Euros for not producing my car registration documents within 30 days of receiving the fine! I was not told I had to present my registration and unfortunately do not read Italian so could not read this on the original fine.
I have rung the British police and they tell me that I would have to present in an Italian police station as they do not relay information for motoring offences back to Italy; meaning I would have had to pop back to Italy to present my documents, not a practical option even if I had known.
In the mean time I have contacted several solicitors, the law society, the Italian embassy in London, the Italian consulate in London and finally the British consulate in Italy….
The only one to provide any information was the British consulate in Italy and they advised me to get an Italian solicitor or pay the fine.
I feel I have been mistreated here and have been given little option other than to pay of be pursued for an offence I have been forced into unfairly.
• Can I just ignore this fine and never go to Italy again?
• Should the initial fine have been presented to me in English?
• Should I have been given an alternative to presenting my documents in an Italian police station?
Kind Regards
Paul
Alex Roe says
Hi Paul,
Two fines? That’s a little odd but I’ve no experience of this situation aside from knowing that Italy’s police require everyone here to carry all documents with them when on the road. If documents are not in order then vehicles can be seized. It’s a pity the police did not explain they had given you what is known in UK vernacular as a ‘producer’.
You appear to have contacted all and sundry but to no avail.
You could ignore the fine and hope you will not be hounded by a debt collection agency as has been happening to those in some other nations who have committed minor driving offences in Italy.
I don’t know what the law says with regard to fines being presented in English but I doubt Italians caught in the UK would receive fines written in Italian so there’s probably no obligation to do so.
And I have no idea whether you should have been given an alternative to going to an Italian police station.
I could put you in touch with English speaking lawyers for an informal chat about this, if you like. As an alternative, if you are a member of the AA or RAC, you might be able to seek their advice.
The second fine does seem rather odd though.
Regards,
Alex
Al says
Hi Paul,
Not being able to produce your documents on the spot usually implies that you have to present them in a police station in the next few days.
I imagine that is also the case in the UK.
It’s a shame you didn’t/couldn’t read the original fine.
The policeman could have also warned you that you had to present your car registration document within 30 days.
Art. 180 of the Italian Highway Code – Possession of vehicle and driving documents
1 – In order to be able to drive a motor vehicle, the driver must have the following documents:
a) registration certificate, …
b) driving license, …
……………………
7 – Anyone who violates the provisions of this Article shall be subjected to a fine of 41€ (up to 169€).
8 – Anyone who, without a justified reason, fails to comply with the Authority’s request to present himself, within the time limit specified in the request itself, at a police station, to provide information or produce documents for the purpose of a determination on the administrative violations under this Code, is subjected to a fine of 422€ (up to 1.695€).
The Italian authorities have five years (Art. 209-Italian Highway Code) to collect fines from the date of the offence.
This time limit can be interrupted by any official act relevant to the fine.
Ignore any future possible contact from a debt collection agency and I would probably avoid driving in the Aosta Valley in the next few years.
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Paul Prizeman says
Hi Alex and Al,
Thankyou both for researching and replying; I have not yet contacted the RAC (my provider), but I will contact the AA also to see if they offer any worthwhile advice I will post here.
I am very pleased to hear I have the option of ignoring the fine and avoiding Italy for 5 years! I have had no dealings with debt collection agencies before but as long as it is only letters they send and not burly blokes then I can deal with it.
I was going to write a letter to the ‘Ministero dell’Interno Polizia Strada, Aosta’ (fine issuer) explaining my situation and offer to present my documents at a London based Italian consulate/embassy/government building of their choosing….What do you feel my chances of a response/positive outcome are?
I have read that you can appeal to the prelate but with a 95-98% chance of rejection and then the next step up a justice of the peace also with similar success rates so I won’t be bothering with these.
Yours gratefully
Paul
Al says
Hi Paul,
An appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace? On what grounds?
The fine is valid. I believe the original 28€ fine mentioned the 30 day time limit to present your registration certificate…
Don’t write a letter. Haven’t you read the page on this website about the Italian Post? 🙂
If you wish, what you could try though would be to call ASAP:
Sezione Polizia Stradale Aosta Ufficio Verbali
(Aosta Traffic Police Section – Fines office)
Corso Battaglione Aosta, 169
11100 (AOSTA – AO)
telefono: 0165279531
Fax: 0165279521 – 0165279528
Email: uffverbali.sezpolstrada.ao@pecps.poliziadistato.it
Mon-Fri 9am-1pm
Mon & Thur 3pm-5pm
Explain the situation and offer to send via email or fax your registration certificate.
The email address above is an Italian certified mail address (PEC – Posta elettronica certificata). You can not send a regular email to this address.
With a little luck, someone in the office speaks English or French. How’s your French? 😉
Given the circumstances, they might agree to cancel your 500€ fine.
Your chances of a positive outcome? Your guess is as good as mine.
But I wouldn’t be too optimistic, I doubt the police can cancel a valid fine.
There is no need to avoid Italy for 5 years.
Maybe only the Aosta Valley, as a precautionary measure.
Al
Alex Roe says
Many thanks for this info Al and for your extremely helpful input on this sticky subject through the years.
All the best,
Alex 🙂
John Jordan says
As I have previously explained my story on here. Committed offence Pisa August 2013 notification of penalty August 2014 appeal September 2014. To date I have received nothing from the authorities in Pisa. I did visit Italy July 2015 and rented a car as named driver. no issue at car rental office.
I am now assuming that the Pisa authorities have seen the reasonable nature of the reasons for my appeal and the obvious futility of pursuing me for payment.
I now can reasonably consider the matter closed and am looking forward to my next trip to Italy (Bologna) in November. No hard feelings.
But I will be extremely careful driving in Italia no ZTL and stay within speeding limits from now on.
John
Alex Roe says
Hi John,
Many thanks for providing this update – it should prove of interest to quite a few former visitors to Italy who’ve ended up with fines. Also interesting to hear that car rental caused no problems.
Odd that the Pisa authorities never even bothered with the common courtesy of a reply to your appeal.
Hope you have a good time in Bologna – it’s a lovely city!
Kind regards,
Alex
Ryan S says
Hi All.
After getting confused by Italian road signs in May last year, took a inadvertent scenic trip around Torino which resulted in me entering a ZTL twice, three minutes apart (09/05/2014). I received notice of an impending fine from the rental company (Firefly) on 31/09/2014 after which they charged me the admin fee twice for providing my details.
Fast forward to 11/09/2015 and I receive two notifications of a fine to be paid that were not sent recorded delivery. Does the 360 day statute of limitations from the date of the offence still apply or is the date when they acquired my details? If I wanted to contest this, do I have to do so in Italian like they stated or can I do it in English under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights?
Many thanks for any response.
Ryan
Al says
Hi Ryan,
I do believe that you received the official notifications.
The appeal procedure and appeal authorities (Prefect or Justice of the Peace) are mentioned in the letters.
Was there a yellow A.R. detachable card on the rear of the envelopes?
A.R. means “Avviso di ricevimento” –> “Proof of receipt”.
“If I wanted to contest this”:
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
I would enclose with the letter, not only a readable copy of the formal notifications, but also Decision 198/1996” of the Italian Constitutional Court.
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504
Send one letter of appeal for the two fines. Same grounds: over 360 days, same town (Prefect): Torino.
Read November 8, 2010 at 11:22 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29381)
Should a misguided civil servant deny the appeal, I would, obviously, never pay.
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Seaborn says
Ryan S, just received the same notification of offence from Torino, with the AR card still attached. How did you proceed? What was the outcome? My infraction was 17 months ago.
Liv says
I have a question for you. While visiting Venice in May 2014, we bought but didn’t validate a bus ticket. The bus was overcrowded and we didn’t even know we needed to do so (although ignorance is no excuse). We received 2 tickets. We gave them to our friend living in Bassano del Grappa to pay for us (we were leaving early the next day). She thought it was ridiculous but we insisted. Turns out, she didn’t pay it. We have no idea what happened to it, no information beyond what that, and no way to figure out how to pay it. We want to go back in June 2016 and don’t know if we’ll be in for a rude awakening. Any advice?
Alex Roe says
Don’t worry too much Liv, I doubt they’ll have flagged your name at customs for the for non-payment of bus tickets fine – as your friend, who might be Italian, knows.
I think you can sleep easy at night and look forward to your next trip to Italy.
Cheers,
Alex
John says
Hi Al,
Since appealing my offences last September I have not received any further attention from the Pisa Authorities. I am flying out to Tuscany in a few days and the wife is the driver for this trip. But I intend to present my driving documents and ask to be a named driver. If it is accepted then off we go if not then her Majesty will have to drive. We will not be staying in the Pisa area so cannot really pop into the prefects office. But will be taking all my paper work in case. I am of the opinion that my appeal has been put into a pile to be dealt with and is awaiting an outcome so in suspension or on review the authorities know they are on very shaky legal ground vis a vie European equal treatment of citizens legislation and are not going to seek enforcement. Or they are awaiting my return.
If however I am whisked away to the old chokey I will have the funds to pay up.
Not sure that any Italian court could punish in a more evil way than to be driven about Italy by the present wife!!!!!
Regards
John
Paul says
Keep us informed John please. I will be in a very similar situation in September, when we return to Italy (Sorrento) after being ‘found guilty’ of violating a ZTL in Tuscany last year. I appealed and lost, but understand this is a civil and not criminal offence (so no chokey possibility) and also there’s no enforcement agreement between Italy and the UK, so I’m not paying. Very keen to know what the hire car company says though – the missus has never driven on the wrong side of the road in 30+ driving years, and isn’t keen to start in the country with arguably the worst drivers!!
(I’m moving house soon too, so the Italian ‘authorities’ are about to lose touch with me…….)
Thanks.
Paul
John says
Hi Paul,
Interested to hear your appeal was refused. How long did the authorities take to let you know this.
But I am keeping my fingers will let you know.
Regards
John
Paul says
I think the first notification came around Jan (violation was in June last year), appealed and heard refused maybe April. Since when I heard nothing more til last week when I got notified that I was 30 days into a 60 day period to pay, otherwise the fine doubles and it will get escalated to a debt collection agency subject to agreements in place with my country. Which I happen to know don’t exist. I replied to ask them to provide detail of these agreements last week – heard nothing back yet. But I really don’t have any intention of paying. Ever.
John says
I appealed 5 September 2014 for offences August 2013. Have heard nothing since. Maybe I was put in the wrong pile of papers.
Al says
Hi John,
I don’t foresee any problems at all.
As you probably know, the Prefect must come to a decision within 210 days, and then has an other 150 to send you his response.
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Leonardo leone says
At the end of June 2014 i was with my family in the hotel Welcome in San Benedetto Del Tronto.
I was parked on the side street of the Hotel.After a few months Hertz rent a car informed me in Canada that i had a parking ticket What is strange is that Hertz took some money off my credit card and it was not to pay the parking fine but for them.After a year in July 2015 i received a notice of payment from the City of San Benedetto. I find it strange that they sent it to me after a year. In order not to have problems if i go back to Italy i paid it on the net with my credit card.
In the future i will not rent a car from Hertz because they took money from my account, it was like paying two parking fines when i shoud have paid only one. Why didn’t the police put the fine on the car instead of contacting me a year after?
John says
I promised to reply on how things went. I arrived in Pisa straight to car rental I booked the car in my spouses name to be sure we got the auto. However i did enquire as to whether I could transfer to my name as Mrs was having migraine. Could not be done as booking was discounted etc so cost of additional driver asked we agreed a deal to have additional driver and total insirance no excess fully cover at abot 135 euro good deal I thought. So went through every thing licence CC address no problems whta so ever. Off I went 10 days later popped car back to the airport. So I assume that the appeal has stopped the process and car hire company not informed of the offence. Or that Europe car does not have access to traffic fines database.
As Alex stated the authorities have 210 to decide on the merits of my appeal and 150 days to inform me of the decision. These are inclusive days and as I have seen with other drivers they will take the maximum allowed time to respond. I anticipate that would mean I will be informed of the outcome within the next 4 weeks.
However
If I do not hear from the Pisa authority by October I will write again stating that I now consider the matter closed due to the failure to respond to my appeal within a “reasonable” time.
Nicole says
Thank you greatly for this update about your experience returning to Italy and renting a car. It’s very helpful to all of us. However, you appealed to them whereas some of us never appealed or contacted the traffic court after receiving our tickets. It would be great to hear the experience of someone who received ticket, did nothing, and returns to Italy renting a car.
Alex Roe says
Many thanks for this update, John – very useful. Very interesting to hear your name did not crop up too – seems the database is a little erratic – like Italy in general 😉
Not sure how the Pisa people will take being told they are unreasonable – if this happens – please do let us know if you do hear back from them.
Regards,
Alex
Ute Lentz says
Hi Alex,
I received a payment notice from the Comune di Venezia two weeks ago via a Dutch P.O. box address, not certified. We visited Venice two years ago by rental car rented in Munich, Germany. At first I thought it was a scam but was advised by German friends and insiders to follow up. Apparently even European governments are using postal services in other EU countries nowadays to take advantage of lower postage rates (I live in the US). I also learned that there is a legal agreement between Italy and the US concerning traffic violations. The letter stated that 3 points would be added to my driving record in case of ignoring the fine. I sure won’t need those.
The letter informed me of the possibility to pay online which I did. I suppose that the fine posted on the policedata website is current, and now I do not have to worry about past deadlines and increasing amounts due to delays in communication. They even had the pictures of the traffic camera on file and accessible for me (although no front view and we don’t remember who drove). The access information was included in the notice.
My problem now is that I am required to send in a form with my driver license information in addition to the online payment. However, the return address provided as “International Services Centre, Policedata” looks fragmentary. I googled it in various ways but cannot seem to find a postal code or anything in that matter. The letter head says “Comune di Venezia, Local Police”. Would that be sufficient as a mailing address?
Thank you for your advice.
Best regards,
Ute
Al says
Hi Ute,
“I also learned that there is a legal agreement between Italy and the US concerning traffic violations.”
Really? And what is your reliable source? 🙂
“The letter stated that 3 points would be added to my driving record in case of ignoring the fine.”
3 points will be deducted from your “20 point Italian driving license”.
No points are endorsed on a foreign driving license. The 3 point deduction applies only in Italy.
Send your form via registered letter with proof of receipt to:
Corpo di Polizia Municipale di Venezia
Servizio Sanzioni Amministrative e Contenzioso
Ufficio Codice della Strada
Via Cappuccina, 76 – 30174 Mestre – Venezia
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Nicole says
Hello Ute, I agree with Al. I also thought it was incredulous that there’d be “a legal agreement between Italy and the US concerning traffic violations”. Too bad you paid. I didn’t and wouldn’t.
Martin says
Hi there,
Thanks for the really useful info.
In May 2014 I drove to Lucca, Pisa and Florence, and likely passed countless ZTL cameras before finding out about them, while researching something else – at which point I flew home early, tail between my legs.
Just yesterday I received what I assume is the first of many ZTL fines (perhaps even up to 10-15).
The date of infraction is in May 2014
The date of “ascertainment (date of the statute of limitation starts running)” [sic] – mid/late August 2014
Date fine issued: 17 June
Date received: After 29 June (I just got back from holiday)
If I had paid within 5 days, c115 euros; within 40 days, c140 euros; within 60 days, c220.
The 5 day period for the lowest fine had already passed by the time I received the letter.
Given it took well over 360 days from the infraction (although not from “ascertainment”) to receive the letter, I’d really like to know my options for contesting. I have no plans to return to Italy within 5 years or to drive there ever (!).
Any high-level, informal advice you can give would be very gratefully received.
Thanks, best,
M
Alex Roe says
Hi Martin,
For high-level, informal advice, I suggest you plough through the comments by Al (not me – Alex) – he explains how you can contest these fines though you’ll probably need an Italian lawyer to do it – which will cost money – however, quite a few traffic offence fines were thrown out in Italy recently owing to the fact that camera based ‘offender spotters’ may not have been calibrated correctly. A lawyer in Italy could attempt to use this defence. I can put you in touch will a Milan based law firm I know if that is a path you’d like to go down. Lawyers speak English and first step would be an informal chat after which you could decide whether or not to proceed.
Let me know if this interests you and, if you don’t mind, I can email contact info to you.
Best,
Alex Roe (not helpful Al)
Marcus MacLean says
Hi Alex,
Re Paul’s message – I have had numerous letters from Italy, relating to the ‘crime’ of driving in a limited area without authorisation in July 2013. I now have a letter from an Australian debt collection outfit.
I have not paid the ‘fine’ as I have no intention of driving in Italy again, but don’t need any ‘bad debt’ labels here in Australia.
Obviously it would be easier just to pay, but I would like to know if this is just a try on or can they make this stick? My previous information was that these fines could not be enforced.
Alex Roe says
Hi Marcus,
I’ve no idea whether they can make the debt stick in Australia but using debt collectors is the latest tactic to get fined drivers to pay up. I recommend you contact either a motoring or consumer organisation and see what they say. Once debt collection agencies become involved, the whole matter becomes even more complex.
It does sound as if Italy is sending out the fines more quickly than in the past which means the defence that they are out of date may not be legitimate. However, a court in Italy recently found that fines issued electronically may not be valid because camera systems may not have been maintained properly.
If you are interested, I could put both you and Paul in touch with English speaking lawyers in Italy who could offer advice – obviously at a price. Up to you.
Best,
Alex
Paul Carr says
Hi both and thanks Alex.
I am returning to Italy in September as it happens. But not particularly worried about the prospect of the hire car firm not letting me hire one – my wife will be with me. I’m also moving house on September, which I assume will give me a chance to ‘disappear’. Ref the debt collectors, given they don’t have any basis in English law to collect the fine then again I’m happy to sit that one out, and my wife works as FD for a law firm here, so sure I can ensure my safety on that score. I just wanted reassurance that the ‘offence’ isn’t a criminal one, and that there’s no basis legally outside Italy or France (where there is reputed to be a reciprocal agreement) for imposition of further penalty nor collection of the imposed fine.
Hi Marcus – good luck in Aus. Nil illigitime carborundum!
Paul says
Hi Alex.
I have a fine for entering a ZTL (apparently) in Lucca last summer. I have ignored all missives sent to date, and just received another one today (1/7/15) suggesting I have 30 of a 60 day period to pay €126 or the fine will double. After that they suggest it will be passed to a ‘collection agency in my country’. I read an earlier post on this site suggesting that the Italians actually have no agreement in the UK to make payment of this ‘civil’ fine enforceable. Does that sill stand? What’s likely to happen next? (I have no intention of making payment – ludicrous ‘offence’ if they really want tourists to visit Tuscany – but keen to know the legal standing.
Thanks.
Alex Roe says
Hi Paul,
The next move, if you don’t cough up, will be to put the matter in the hands of a private debt collection agency who will pester you. This would have nothing to do with any official agreements even if they exist – unless the debt collectors state they are acting on behalf of the government.
Problem is under Italian law, an offence has been committed which means you should either challenge it or pay up. To challenge the fine, you’d need to speak to lawyers or a motoring association in order to understand whether you can forget about the fine or whether the debt collection move is legal. If it is and you don’t pay, you could end up on a credit black list.
Also, by not paying, you could end up having problems when attempting to hire/rent a car in Italy in the future – assuming you return to Italy.
Please seek advice from others on this bearing in mind I’m not a lawyer.
Good luck,
Alex
Michael says
Dear Alex, A few weeks ago I had €40 deducted from my Credit Card by Gold Car for what they say is a management fee for a €40 fine I got between 18 and 23 Mar 15 in Italy. There is no detail of the fine so I have no idea where the offence occurred or what it was for (I drove in and between Milan and Bologna in that period). The email says Gold Car had to give my details to the authorities and I would receive a fine in due course. I have spoken to Gold Car Customer Services, which is in Spain to get some details of the fine but they don’t have any???
Is there anyone in Italy I could contact to enquire about this.
I’d like to clear this up as I will be visiting Milan again soon and don’t want any surprises when I enter Italy.
Thanks
Alex Roe says
Hi Michael,
These charges usually occur because info re some offence or other has been passed to the authorities. A fine notification will arrive sooner or later. To find out what the fine is about, you’ll have to contact Gold Car in Italy but I don’t know if they’ll know what you may be find for – all they may know is that the authorities needed information which may then be used to create fine notification.
You may not have to worry about problems when visiting Milan in the near future – It sounds as if the fine is not yet in the system and may not be when you return – if it is, paying it should end any problems re hiring a car. Hopefully the fine won’t be too high but there’s no way I can know.
Best,
Alex.
John says
I have still (September 2014) not received any response or acknowledgement of my appeal to the prefect of Pisa of offence August 2013.
However I am visiting Italy in July ( I know I am weak) I will not this time need a car so no rental agency issues. I am not really expecting to be stopped at border control but who knows. But as the case is that I will have my passport copied and checked by my hotel I am not 100% sure what will happen. I have always admired from a distance the stunningly attractive police women in Italy I may get up closer this time! I hope to report back.
Ticketed says
Does Rome have a website that I can use to look up the status of a restricted zone ticket? I was charged by the rental car company for looking up my info, and they gave me the ticket number on it, so I then had my hotel fax to the police a note with that ticket number and stating that I was staying in their hotel inside the ZTL on that date. The incident was 9 months ago and I’ve not heard anything since so I assumed it was taken care of. The rental car company said they’d refund their charge if I can show the ticket was cancelled, so I thought to try to find something online. Now that I have read this page, though, I wonder if I should not do anything to attract attention until the full year has passed?
Al says
Hi Ticketed,
The Roma Municipal Police have mandated the collection agency EMO (http://www.emo.nivi.it/) to notify fines to foreigners.
If your fine was cancelled by the Police, it has not been forwarded to the EMO.
And, of course, you will never receive anything, either from the Police or the EMO.
It would be too much of a hassle to try and contact the Police, …
Best,
Al
Ticketed says
Even if I can’t prove it to the car company, after seeing your blg I’m anxious that it wasn’t dismissed but instead will still come before the full year is up. So I was curious to know of I could see the status of a ticket online; from your response, I guess not?
Do other European countries have similar practices or is this unique to Italy? I have driven in Spain, France and Switzerland and never got a ticket. Thisexperience has left me disinclined to go back to Italy. Aside from my problem in Rome, I could never find info online about the borders of a ztl in Florence and so had to take a train into town. I suppose some may say that is what it is intended to accomplish, but I at least should have been able to find out the information.
Al says
Your fine should have been cancelled, if… the hotel sent the fax.
I doubt that you can look up the status of a cancelled fine online.
Furthermore, sent to a car rental agency. But you never know.
You could possibly try: http://www.comune.roma.it/wps/portal/pcr?jppagecode=serv_pagam.wp
Servizi di Pagamento / Payment Services
Click on Pagamento Utenti non identificati / Payment unidentified users.
Click on Contravvenzione / Fine.
If you have the info on the fine sent to the car rental agency, fill in the field(s):
(1) Numero Atto (obbligatorio) / Fine number (compulsory)
And click on Ricerca / Search.
As a second step, fill in (1) & (2) Targa / Plate number.
As a third step, fill in also (3) Data Infrazione / Infringement date & Importo Infrazione / Infringement amount.
I wouldn’t be so anxious and would not pay the fine… if I ever received it. 🙂
If, nevertheless, you were to be “re-inclined” to return to Florence: 😉
http://www.visitflorence.com/moving-around-florence/by-car.html
http://www.serviziallastrada.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=33&Itemid=430&lang=en
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Rui says
Follow up on my comment from November 28th.
So, in February 2014, I appealed both my fines to the Mayor of Rome and sent a copy to E.M.O. More than a year has passed and I haven’t received any response since, so I guess it worked out.
Ivan says
I had four credit card charges of 36.30 Euro each from Hertz after our trip to Italy that were supposed to be for a release of information to the authorities for tickets. We had visited Italy for two weeks in September of 2012.
To this date I have not received anything from the Italian authorities regarding the tickets. The charges from Hertz came in December of 2012.
We’re thinking of going back to Italy and I’m wondering if I’m going to have any problems when I land, or renting a car. Very odd for the Italian government not to follow up issuing a ticket, much less four of them
And how can I prove that I never received any official notification other than from Hertz?
Al says
Hi Ivan,
September of 2012 !?
Have you moved in the meantime ?
You’ll probably never receive the fines.
You won’t have any problems returning to Italy.
Best,
Al
Nicole says
Hi Ivan,
You should have contacted Hertz back when they charged your credit card 36.30 Euros 4 times to demand they refund your money. We did when they charged us administrative fee in 2011 and they refunded the money to our credit card. And if you never signed for any ticket coming from Italy, then they cannot say that you did receive the tickets.
Barry Lipsett says
Just to clarify, the sentence “Indeed, the additional time required to identify a driver resident abroad is the sole rationale for requiring an extended time limit for notification” is taken from my response to EMO. I should have closed the quotation in my post. EMO continues to maintain that the law provides for the time to identify the foreign driver plus 360 days.
In their latest missive, EMO has referenced two Italian Constitutional Court cases (477/02 and 28/04) seemingly having abandoned their earlier reliance on the wording of the Traffic Code. I have asked them to provide the relevant excerpts from the cited decisions or, if decisions are publicly available on the internet, the URL. Is anyone familiar with these decisions?
Overall, I have the impression that EMO makes it up as they go along.
Al says
Hi Barry,
“Overall, I have the impression that EMO makes it up as they go along.”
EMO have this unfortunate tendency to miss the point or, as I see it, to talk out of their arse.
You can find Constitutional Court Sentences 477/02 and 28/04 at:
http://www.cortecostituzionale.it/actionPronuncia.do
Anno (year): 2002, Numero (number): 477, click on “Ricerca” (search)…
These decisions simply state that, for the Police (EMO), notification is perfected at the time of delivery of the fine to the post office, for the offender at the date of receipt of the fine.
Thus, as I’ve already written, a Notification sent on the 359th day (from the date of violation) and received by the offender on the 361st is valid.
Best,
Al
Barry Lipsett says
EMO persists in claiming that the time limit to notify drivers resident abroad is 360 days from the date of violation or identification.
I continue to correspond with them on this misinterpretation of the Italian Traffic Code. Here is an excerpt from my latest missive.
“You may wish to review your interpretation of Article 201 in the light of the following:
1. Contrary to your assertion, Article 201 is silent with respect to rental vehicles. It refers solely to “residents abroad” when dealing with the application of the extended 360 time limit.
2. Representations by Italian authorities to the European Parliament in response to Petition 0171/2012 (differing statutes of limitations in Italy for Italians and foreigners) make it abundantly clear that the extended 360 day time limit is inclusive of the additional time required to identify a driver resident abroad. Indeed, the additional time required to identify a driver resident abroad is the sole rationale for requiring an extended time limit for notification.
So its 360 days and not, as you would seem to imply, an unlimited amount of time to identify a driver resident abroad plus 360 days.
John Jordan says
Thanks Barry
That is a very narrow rational. However if the time to identify the car user or renter is 120 days then the Italian authorities have no reasonable ground to take a year to mail the “offender” with the details of offence. Additionally whilst it could be argued by the Italian authorities that 360 days are required to serve. Remember I speak only of equal treatment of EU citizens. There is also the question of whether or not notice is served by being mailed or on the date for which the driver received and signed for the notifications.
The 360 day period is the most obvious problem for EU citizens there is also the appeals process (Italian only) and the extremely poor quality of evidence of offence provide by the Italian authorities. Photo of the plates of a car.
I see cause for being positive if as stated by EMO
“Indeed, the additional time required to identify a driver resident abroad is the sole rationale for requiring an extended time limit for notification”
It would suggest that the appropriate timescale for EU citizen would be TIME TO IDENTIFY DRIVER/RENTER PLUS 90 DAYS AS ALLOWED BY ITALIAN LAW
Well done Barry
Xavier says
Hi Alex! Thank you for this helpful post! My wife and I were in Italy in October and were just notified by our rental agency about 5 different Restricted Traffic zone tickets during our week long stay in Italy. Our rental appartment was on the boarder of one of these zones, and since we were getting married, we needed a rental car in order to drive to the different wedding service providers in the city. We have not received any official notice from the Roman Police yet, and we will make sure to review it, its language, and I think we will have a hard time understanding ANY spelling mistake. Anyway… if we question their procedures until 361 days from the infraction have passed, and still have not received a satisfying answer, we can ask them to delete the case right?
John Jordan says
Hi Alex,
I feeling a bit down bad January blues. Normally at this point I am lloking forward to my wifes and my annual Birthday visit to Italy we usually have a weekend in Italy end of January. Rome Milan Bologna and Venice it’s been a tradition for our 15 years together. This year due to the fines we are going to Madrid to spend our money and time. Additionally at this time we resrve our Tuscany accommodation for our summer vacation. Although our 13 year old had been putting pressure on to switch to Puglia after seeing a British teen flick that had been filmed there. We are Italy lovers and it is so sad for us but we will miss our Italy. Madrid has some wondergul buildings and food as well as excellent hotels and it looks like Ibiza may be a substitute for the beaches of Puglia. Between car rental restaurants shopping (shoes always shoes and handbags) attracton visits I know we are taking a minimum 4,000 to 4,500 Euro (excluding flight cost)to a different location this year. I still await a response from the magistrate in Pisa to my appeal sent in September. But more damaging is that I have filled friends and family with stories of Bella Italia some of whom visited on our recommendation now the tale of the fines fill their ears. I now have a crumb of Dante’s bitter bread of exile. I worry it took 706 years before Dante had his fines recinded. Steam blown off, Grazi.
PS Alex I love your blog. Wish I had found it years ago.
John
Alex Roe says
Hi John,
Very sorry to hear Italy’s pesky fines have put you off your traditional visit to Italy. Also sorry to hear that you’ve received no response to your appeal – that’s unacceptable and no way to treat people who boost the nation’s economy. Hopefully Spain will prove friendlier fine-wise!
Puglia is an attractive destination – lots to see and very good food too, I’ve been led to believe by Italians I know. But to get the best out of Puglia, you would need a car to get around which, of course, increases the risk of being hit by another fine!
I do wonder how many others are being put off visiting Italy by these fines though for now it seems not enough are being affected to cause Italy to act.
Glad you enjoy the blog – many thanks for reading.
Kind regards,
Alex
Paul says
Hello all,
I have just cancelled my credit card thinking someone from Goldcar Italy has illegally taken 80 euros from my card. I had been overcharged by this company back in August for insurance which was duly returned as we complained to europcar who were the agents. After calling europcar to explain the fraud, they told me I have traffic violations in Italy and the charges were correct.
I have not received any notification from Goldcar Italy about these charges nor the police.
We had a parking violation whilst in Tuscany which we promptly paid in one of their post offices and have no idea what these additional violations are.
I have no intention of paying this or these extra fines. What am I likely to be looking forward to?
Martin B says
I was just wondering if their are any discussions in Italy about how this affect the tourists opinion on the country?
Im thinking as a Dane you are:
1) not use to this much waiting time (i mean it is generally a simple computer task)
2) receive information in at least english. And receive information that are user friendly
And i was thinking are their any records on how tourist are being treated vs. Italians? I think (as the information I have received so far from the rental company) that I’ve got a fine for driving 80 in a 70 km zone.. Thinking back to the summer I do beleive that no Italians are driving 70 km/h :).
And generall are their any debate on the general information to tourists fx signs in english?
/Martin
PS: The letter you are refering to “Shortly, I will publish a letter which people can use to request that these pesky fines are officially torn up” where can I find that?
Alex Roe says
Hi Martin,
As far as I know, there’s no discussion in Italy on how these fines might be affecting tourism – nor is it clear whether these fines are affecting actually tourism. However, I suspect they may be putting some people off returning to Italy and those affected by these fines may well be telling friends and family to be aware of them – this may convince some to either avoid coming to Italy or to avoid renting a car here.
In my opinion in view of the Italian constitution which states that everybody is equal in the eyes of the law, Italy should not be treating tourists any differently by allowing more time for the fine notices to be served.
Re signs not being in English, you can’t expect them to be – this is Italy and as far as I know, there’s no obligation for Italy to display signs in other languages. Really, and I know it’s not easy, it’s up to visitors to Italy to inform themselves about traffic regulations here – the ignorance is nothing in the face of the law principle.
I shall have to dig around for more info on this: “Shortly, I will publish a letter which people can use to request that these pesky fines are officially torn up” and it may not be possible anyway.
By all means tell people you know about this issue and if people do stop visiting Italy, then Italy may act, maybe.
Best,
Alex
Joseph DeMeyer says
as i commented several months ago, i am a registered ( in the US) disabled driver.. i can not use public transportation; the public transportation ( subway, buses, trams) in rome is anyway rarely equipped for disabled people; neither are the taxis..i had informed the rental car agency of this..i drove thru rome with my disabled driver placard hanging from the inside front window mirror…i was ticketed 5 x in a period of less than 30 minutes…for a total of more than $ 800….when i received the tickets i wrote back that i wanted to see proof first..and also explained i was a disabled driver and had placard clearly visible…i heard nothing back…than collection agency cedar financial in california began to send notices..fines had increased to $ 1800 !!..i send them all the information about my disabled driver status….i also mentioned i appealed these tickets on basis of European Human Rights Act ( concerning disabled people; i am also EU citizen…) they send me the ticket photos of the car: showed only the back..so placard was not photographed… they also wrote i could contact prefetto of local community that ticketed me…i informed cedar financial that i had send the roman prefetto the same documentation of my registered disabled driver status as they received from me…they kept leaving messages on my voice mail boxes..i notified them that they did so on the voice mailboxes of a doctors office, thereby taking up space that is meant for emergency calls…they keep doing it !!!i am convinced that the new mayor of rome…who is originaly from california…is in cahoots with this collection agency: big profits !!! i believe the real problem is not so much with rome ( that is practically unresolvable anyway) but with cedar financial: we need to attack that collection agency and therewith find some relief from this absurdity. am curious anyway if any of you are disabled drivers and have experienced same treatment re. italian tickets
Alex Roe says
Hi Joseph,
Very sorry to hear your fine situation has not be resolved and that a credit collection agency has now become involved. Aside from paying (which you probably should not do) the only other way of finding a away out of this mess might be to contact a consumer rights organization and seek their advice on the legitimacy of Cedar Financial’s actions, and possibly, whether they could be charged with harassment. A letter from a lawyer outlining the possibility of a damages claim might shut them up.
Alternatively, but it may be costly, you could engage the services of a lawyer in Italy. If you like, I can give you the name of an Milan based law firm with English speaking lawyers and you could maybe have a chat with them about what it might cost you to tackle this issue via Italy’s courts – you might be able to seek an award of costs but I don’t know – it’s something you could ask the lawyers about.
Hope this helps and if you can find the time, let us know how you get on.
Regards,
Alex
Kevin Baughman says
Your website and blog comments were helpful in helping me understand a traffic ticket I received in Rome. I ended up paying the collection agency, as I had felt I had no recourse and the risks were not worth the fee payment. Here is the back story, I rented and picked up a car from Europcar at the Rome train station. While driving out of Rome to the Autostrada, I picked up a photo/ticket while driving in a unseen restricted zone. The infraction was in May 2012. I subsequently received a bill from Europcar for 50E in October 2012. I called them regarding the charge and they said it was for a camera violation. What the rental car company did not tell me was this was not the ticket fee, only their administrative fee for processing the traffic police request for my identification. The Rome Police subsequently sent me a notice for collection of $163 to the wrong address. It escalated to $353 when they couldn’t track me down. They then assigned it to Cedar Financial. Cedar found me at the correct address and contacted me. Thinking it was a scam (I thought it had been paid), I ignored it. I was recontacted again last week and decided to dig further. I talked to the Italian Consular’s office, the collection agency and the rental car company. It turns out that the actual ticket fee was “only” $107. There are additional police administrative fees that eventually more than double the original ticket fee. The final tab was $353 with tacked on late fees. It doesn’t matter that they used the wrong address. By Italian law, they still attempted to contact me.
While I don’t like the fees and the way the Rome Police handle these tickets, it is their law. If I chose to not pay the fee, I would have had a bench warrant issued and my name/information would land in a data base in Italy. I would have been unable to rent a car again in Italy. And if I had let someone else rent the vehicle (as suggested above) and I drove the car with a subsequent violation (officer involved) or accident where they ran my information through their system I could be arrested. Additionally, my infraction would show up if I flew in or out of an Italian airport and used my passport to enter or exit the country.
Bottom line for me… the whole moving violation/ camera ticket process in Italy stinks. But it is their law and I chose to drive there. The risks of not paying the fee outweigh any other option in my mind. Key learning – never drive a car in a large Italian city unless you live there and know the restricted zone locations.
Alex Roe says
Hi Kevin,
Good to hear my website has helped. Your point on the whole situation being ‘Italy’s Law’ is valid even if the law does smell especially in the face of its treatment of those who are not resident in Italy. However, it is the law and as a guest in Italy, you have to abide by it – provided the law is being applied justly, of course.
Also valid is your point regarding knowing Italy’s restricted traffic zone locations and herein lies the greatest problem – foreigners simply do not know where they are nor how they function. It’s a pity gps navigation systems and applications don’t flag Italy’s restricted traffic zones as this might help. Note too that these zones exist in smaller Italian cities and towns too.
One way to avoid problems is to park on the outskirts of towns and cities in Italy and take a bus or train into the center – it’s not always that convenient (or even possible) but can literally save one hundreds of Euros. I know for a fact that Siena in Tuscany has extensive parking on its outskirts – I’ve used it and was not fined! However, if you don’t know the area, it is very easy to end up where you shouldn’t be and the cameras are not at all forgiving, alas.
Note that if you book a hotel within a restricted traffic area you should always tell the hotel if you arrive by car and get the fact that you told the hotel in writing – insist on this otherwise you’ll be fined if your car is caught on camera. In fact, you’ll probably be fined anyway but with the written evidence you should be able to get fines annulled. Better still – don’t stay in city center hotels in Italy if you are in a car.
Anyway, no you have paid, you can return to Italy without having to worry about being arrested for non-payment of fines. While I do not know of passports being flagged, I have heard that car rental companies do maintain records of those who do not pay fines and will refuse to rent cars to them until the fines have been settled. In some cases, settling outstanding fines may cost almost as much as a vacation in Italy!
Best,
Alex
Stew says
I am happy to provide the outcome to date of my Italian traffic fine experiences. My strategy has been to not pay them, and so far so good. I received 2 notices for ZLT violations in 2008, one each for Florence and Arezzo. I think the first fine notices came in 2009. The fine for Florence was particularly galling since I had to enter the ZLT to return the rental car. For Arezzo, my recollection is that we turned around as soon as we saw the ZLT sign but obviously still triggered the camera. I subsequently received notices and calls from Cedar Financial, and the occasional updated higher fine notices. The communications from Cedar continued until around a year ago, but stopped (so far) after I finally called them back and said I wouldn’t pay them. I just checked my credit reports from the 3 US credit agencies and there is nothing on them about this. Thanks for having the best website for this unfortunate topic.
Alex Roe says
Hi Stew,
Many thanks for your update – others should find it useful, especially regarding Cedar Financial and credit reports.
Do let us know if the credit report situation changes. If it does, you may want to contact a consumer association and seek their advice. Hopefully, this won’t become necessary.
Good to hear you find the info here useful.
Kind regards,
Alex
Nicole says
Hi Stew,
Thank you so much for posting the outcome of your case in regards to the traffic fines in Italy and the subsequent harassment from Cedar Financial. This information is exactly what we’ve been looking for from people who already went through the ordeal as you did. We also recently got contacted by Cedar Financial and we told them on the phone not to call us anymore and so far, they have stopped. We were not sure what would happen to our credit rating but your story gives us relief. Thank you again for taking the time to post your story to help other travelers who all got nabbed by Italy’s dubious traffic fines.
Marta says
Hi,
I’ve received two tickets within a period of 9 minutes. Is this even allowed? How can you get a ticket for the same act twice? I parked my car, apparently in a ZLT zone, and got two tickets for that. First, you shouldn’t be able to be convicted for the same act twice. Second, does the camera take pictures every 9 minutes or something? How does that even work.
Also, how are tourists supposed to know what consists a ZLT area? I don’t see how you can be “convicted” for an act of which you have not been informed constitutes a crime.
Would it be possible to claim the ticket amount from Europcar or the agency (Hertz) that rented you the car? Aren’t they supposed to inform you of the possibility of acquiring a permit for the ZLT zones?
I know I’m grasping at straws here, but there is just so much unclear.
Yuri Y. says
Hi
Please help me understand the situation. I was in Italy in April during business trip. After some months I got two fines for a speed and I approved the payment. But today I got another fine for same issue and our italian guys explain me that “- For non-Italian citizens if you are not stopped by police when making infraction and they cannot find out who was driven the car, it’s like not communicating your name, thus implying the payment of a new fine because they haven’t got your personal details.”
So I have to pay some fine twice? How it is possible?
Thanks!!
Yuri
Feddie says
It strikes me that all the comments posted here are endless variations of the same issue. However, there is not one single report on the outcome of any of the proposed ways forward.
Have anyone that decided to ignore and not to pay get any type of follow up notification/claim?
Was anyone who appealed successful/unsuccessful? Have anyone got any feedback from the Prefeto?
Were any of the proposed interpretations and supporting rulings/court decision accepted?
Was the 360 day limit ever acknowledged and accepted by any Prefeto/court?
Any feedback would be invaluable to finally settle for a preferred way to deal with these nasty fines.
Alex Roe says
You make a fair point, Feddie – few people come back here and let us all know how they got on, for better or for worse. This makes the situation harder to understand, I agree but it’s out of my control, alas.
If you have any suggestions, fire away.
Best,
Alex
John Jordan says
Hi
I Appealed (in Italian) to the prefect of Pisa in September, to date no response. However I will not be paying the fines until I am notified of the rejection of an appeal. I have retained copies of my communications and stated I am prepared to attend any court proceedings either in Italy or the UK. If any debt company contacts me I will provide them with my written evidence and if they do not desist then a complaint to the Financial Conduct Authority on harassment.
Post response from the prefect then depending on what it contains I can deal on that basis.
Alex Roe says
Many thanks for this John – very helpful. Please do keep us updated on your progress if you can find the time.
Regards,
Alex
Rui says
Hi
I live in Portugal and I was caught twice on a ZTL in Rome, driving a car from Hertz in September 2012. A few months later Hertz charged my credit card twice (I guess about 38€ each time) for administration fees.
In February 2014, more than 360 days after the violations, I received two registered letters with the fines which I decided not to pay. I appealed based on the 360 day notification period. I sent my appeal to the Perfetto of Rome in February and almost 10 months later I’m waiting for an answer to that appeal (I doubt I’ll ever get one).
After I sent the appeal to the Perfetto, I emailed the collecting agency informing them that I decided to appeal. They replied to me and tried to convince me that the 360 period starts from the day they are able to identify the driver, but the Comune of Rome website is pretty clear about that (it is 360 day from the day of the violation).
I’ll keep you posted with further developments.
Feddie says
Hi Rui,
Your feedback is very helpful.
Would you be kind enough to share the link of the Comune of Rome website where you found the reference to the 360 day period from the date of the violation?
I was only able to find the following:
http://www.comune.roma.it/wps/portal/pcr?contentId=NEW321715&jp_pagecode=newsview.wp&ahew=contentId:jp_pagecode
Which quotes the standard language from the Codice della Strada referring to the 360 day period from the date of the accertamento, and not the violation itself.
Best,
Feddie
Al says
Hi Feddie,
Tempi di notifica del verbale in Italia e all’estero
Per i residenti all’estero o per i veicoli immatricolati all’estero il verbale verrà notificato entro 360 giorni dal giorno della violazione.
http://www.comune.roma.it/wps/portal/pcr?contentId=NEW145409&jp_pagecode=newsview.wp&ahew=contentId:jp_pagecode
Al
Feddie says
I wanted to provide an update on my issue which is pretty much the typical case here: Entered ZTL in a small Tuscan town – More than one year later received two fines with photos – Fines had the “accertamento” date when the car rental provided my details instead of the violation date – Waited for the final notice – Wrote to the Prefetto invoking the 360 day rule using the template posted in this forum – Never heard back. Have recently been in Italy renting a car and driving for a week with no issues related to the Tuscan fine (Only issue was that while hiking in the Foresta Umbra having left the rental car parked in the perfectly designated car park, someone forced the lock and took away some valuables). Oh well…
Louise says
I posted a comment a while ago and did not click on the email link. Please notify me by email. Thank you.
Louise
Louise says
I have a similar situation to Luke. We were in Milan in May 2012 and rented a car from Hertz. They sent us a notice of Admin fees in July and we rec’d a “notice of Payment” from the Comune di Milano requesting 183 euros. I sent a letter stating that we didn’t get any traffic infarctions while in Italy. I assumed it was a scam, since I got no response. The next I heard was from a debt collection agency (Cedar Financial) in Calabasa California, dated Sept. 2014, requesting $603.89!. I sent them a letter explaining that we did not get a traffic ticket in Milan and they have sent a packet which includes photos of a white rental vehicle ( I don’t know if it was ours) that they say is traveling in a bus lane. They also sent an notice that we owe $717.13!
I don’t know if this is a scam and would like to just ignore this, but I don’t want them to be able to affect our credit in the US. Do you know if this alleged violation in Italy can be collected here, or work against our credit? Thanks
Alex Roe says
Hi Louise,
Sounds as if you might have been caught driving in a bus lane in Milan – if, indeed, it was you. While I don’t know if it’s a scam or not, the problem is, aside from the huge sum now being requested, is that it might affect your credit rating because of Cedar Financial’s involvement. At the very least, the fine issuers should be able to prove it was the vehicle you were in and on a day when it was in your possession.
Unfortunately, it’s very easy to end up with a traffic ticket in Italy without you even knowing about it because of the cameras in use.
As for whether payment can be collected in the US, I don’t know – you really need to speak to a lawyer about this or a motoring association.
Best,
Alex
PS This comment has also been emailed to you.
Luke F says
Hi Al, I have just received a letter from an upper class debt collector from Australia saying that they are chasing up the fine for the Italian Authorities. The amount has nearly tripled. What do you think I should do from here? Its been 2.5 years since the fine. Please help,
Joseph DeMeyer says
Recently i got also letters from a collection agency ( in the USA where i live) concerning 5 traffic violations ( unauthorized driving in a period of 20 minutes…) in Rome in 2012. When i received the original notices i attempted to access the emo.nivi.it website several times but the issued usernames and passwords did not work…i then send a certified letter to the rome corpo di polizia address but never heard back from them. The basis of my dispute is that i am a disabled/handicapped person, with the appropriate ID’s from the State of New jersey motor vehicles department as well as the NJ transit authorities. I showed these to the Hertz rental agency at the rome airport , and they assured me i would not require a special driving authorization since i am disabled. Of course the traffic cameras did not photograph my bleu card; only the license plate.
Is it true that officially registered disabled/handicapped persons are not required authorization; under the ECHR act ?
Alex Roe says
Hi Joseph – seeing as you have a registered disability, when you eventually do manage to communicate this to someone, the fines should be annulled. What is making matters frustrating is the lack of response from anyone. Have you advised the USA based collection agency that you are disputing the fines on the grounds of your disability? If nothing else, it might prevent them from pestering you and could help prevent interest on outstanding payments rising (even if, in theory, you shouldn’t have been fined in the first place!) Point out too that you have not heard anything from Rome and why not ask the US based collection agency to contact Rome on your behalf. Seeing as you have not heard anything, this would be a reasonable request, in my opinion.
From what you are saying, you did everything right by asking the Hertz people. It is my understanding that disabled/handicapped do not require authorisation, however, in some way, the authorities would need to be advised of your disability/handicap – you did attempt to do this but were told it was not required. Though it is not your fault, this appears to be where the problem lies.
It’s hard to know what to do in your situation as you already seem to have done all you can. Write another letter to Rome? Or maybe you could get an association representing the disabled/handicapped to take up your case.
Sorry for not having been much help. If you do manage to sort this out and have a spare minute, do let us all know how things worked out by leaving another comment here.
Best,
Alex
Luke says
Hi Alex,
Did you see my comment? You replied but not to me?
– Hi Al, I have just received a letter from an upper class debt collector from Australia saying that they are chasing up the fine for the Italian Authorities. The amount has nearly tripled. What do you think I should do from here? Its been 2.5 years since the fine. Please help,
Alex Roe says
Hi Luke – hoped Al may have jumped in.
Now, your case. Unfortunately, Italy’s authorities can chase payment for these fines for up to 5 years – see the text above all these comments.
Were you aware of the fine before the debt collection agency got in touch? Did you actually commit the alleged offence? If you were aware of the fine and did commit the offence, then technically, you should pay up (perhaps before). While you could ignore the solicitations of the debt collection agency, if you do, you’ll probably end up in court in Australia. What I’d suggest you do is to contact either a lawyer, or local motoring association or the police and ask them whether the actions of the debt collection agency are valid and whether the fine could have been legally tripled.
Sorting this matter out is going to take time and trouble alas but you could close it now by paying up. But do ensure they provide proof that you committed the offence before handing over money and if you do pay – be sure to get a receipt.
Good luck,
Alex
PS What the heck is an upper class debt collection agency when it is at home??
Al says
Hi Luke,
Ignore them.
They have no warrant issued by a court in your country of residence, no enforceable power other than harassment.
Unsurprisingly, UCC – Upper Class Collections is also a member of the international TCM Debt Collection Group. 🙂 (http://www.ucc.net.au/)
Read February 5, 2011 at 10:55 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30020).
Read February 25, 2011 at 8:37 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30162).
The 5-year statute of limitations from the date of the offence is interrupted by any official act relevant to the fine.
Hence usually 5 years from the day they send the official fine by certified mail.
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
P.S. / Al enjoyed the last sunny and warm weekend of the year before the temperature drops. 🙂
Luke says
Hi Alex and Al,
Sorry but I am very confused! Should I pay it or not? Both of you have said completely different things and now a fine of $460 is ridiculous! Not exactly sure what to do…
Alex Roe says
Luke,
A reply to your message November 10, 2014 at 12:43 pm – you decide obviously, but Al’s advice is probably worth following.
Best,
Alex
PS I cannot directly recommend the non-payment of these fines. You really need to take legal advice.
DN says
Hi I was wondering if you have any information, We got a speeding ticket in Rome. The officer physically gave us the ticket. I am trying to find a way to pay the ticket. I am no longer in Italy and cannot go to a post office there as suggested. I have spent hours on the phone and numerous emails trying to get information on how to pay the ticket. the ticket stated that if paid within 5 days it would be reduced by 30% I have called, the hotel, the car rental agency in Rome and US , the Rome Police dept , the auto stradetech and more either no one speaks english or no one knows what to do. I either need banking info or how to pay by credit card hopefully you may have some information Thanks!
Andrew Dale says
Guess what – I live in Australia, and have received a similar letter as well. I have passport details that prove that I had never been in Bologna/Italy during that period.
I was in Barcelona, though and did not rent a car.
I did stay at a hotel, for one night though and had my personal details recorded incorrectly which I did not bother to correct.
“Surprise – these details on this “Commune di Bologna – Polozia Municiaple’s notice has the same incorrect address and details”
This is definitely a “Scam”. !!!!!!
Al says
Hi DN,
Nothing you can do except wait for the fine (registered letter) that you will probably receive in a few months (a year?).
Best,
Al
VJ says
Hi,
I live in the UK, and I’ve just received a letter from Comune di Bologna – Polizia Municipale, claiming that almost a year ago (29 September 2013) , I had driven a rental car in a pedestrian / restricted traffic area and wanting to fine me for it. The letter is in English, and is headed “Statement of Notification”. This is the first I have heard of it, with no prior letters or unexplained charges on my credit card statement, so I’m wondering if this is legitimate or a scam. They don’t provide any website or login details for payment, only bank details for a money transfer with the SWIFT and IBAN codes.
The letter came A.R. Registered, but the postman just dropped it into our postbox, so I did not sign for it. There is also no evidence attached to the letter. The letter is dated 21/8/2014, but the postmark says it was posted on 9/9/2014
Are there any suggestions of how we should approach this? We’re considering challenging it and requesting evidence of the alleged offence, especially as it was a while ago and we can barely remember the holiday let alone where we drove, but we are also worried that it may have repercussions (eg not being allowed back into Italy, UK authorities pursuing us on behalf of their Italian counterparts, etc). Should we just ignore it given we never actually signed for the notice?
Please can you offer any advice? Thank you!
KL says
Hi,
The exact same thing is happening to me, I’ve got the same strange letter you do in my inbox and I didn’t sign for it as well. It’s also from the “Comune di Bologna – Polizia Municipale” with a “Statement of notification”.
When I look up the Bologna Polizia Municipale on the internet they have a different web address, different real address and their fines look totally different:
http://guardamulte.comune.bologna.it/guardamulte/jsp/swGuida.jsp
I cannot find their phone number on the internet and the graphics used on this “Statement of notification” seem to be of low resolution image scans, including the contact information of the police.
Also, the IBAN CODE mentioned (which I tried to pay to at first) is too long to be real, my bank says it’s not valid. It’s in their FAQ though:
IBAN: IT44 H 02008 02450 000 103030675
https://bologna.babyloweb.eu/file_comuni/bologna/faq-en.pdf
To me it seems like some kind of shady business is going on here… I have no idea what to do with this fine, any advice would be very welcome.
Andrew Dale says
You should ignore it. See my post. They’re trying to do it to us in Australia – And I have not set foot in Italy during that time, let alone drive a car..
Al says
Hi VJ & KL,
– “their fines look totally different” because this is an image scan of a fine (written in Italian) sent to Italian residents.
– The IBAN mentioned is a perfectly valid Italian account number.
– As mentioned in the FAQ, you should be able to find details of the alleged offence at the following link: https://bologna.babyloweb.eu/info
(No point in it if you don’t intend to pay).
Either you pay within 60 days of receipt of the fine (even though you didn’t sign for it) because:
– You did in fact drive through the Bologna ZTL (restricted traffic area) and it’s the right thing to do,
– You fear the wrath of God , “repercussions”, as VJ puts it. 😉
– ……………
Or you keep on ignoring any mail that you may receive related to these pesky Italian fines.
Does the comune di Bologna send a reminder letter, … I do not know.
Best,
Al
John Jordan says
Not sure I agree with you Al on “it’s the right thing to do” I honestly believe by appealing and ensuring that the Italian authorities are aware that they are not complying with EU legislation because as I read it these notices do not adhere to basic legal treatment. 360 days to serve a notification come on. Additionally if as seems very obvious they is a financial reason rather than a reasonable effort at traffic control behind these heavy fines. But most importantly the very tough times Italy is facing in attracting tourists will only get worse. I would say in the current situation not paying is the right thing to do.
Al says
Hi John,
You misunderstood me, I was just giving options to VJ & KL.
They did commit those offences and if they “feel” it’s the right thing to do, then…
They seem to have no grounds to appeal successfully, the fines were sent out within 360 days from the date of the traffic violation.
To date, the 360 day notification time limit for foreign residents is still in effect.
Article 201,1 – Italian Highway Code (Violations Notification)
Al
John Jordan says
Hi Al,
you mentioned in a previous comment “contact from a debt collection agency”
In terms of the UK.
As I understand it a debt collection agency cannot act to enforce a debt without a court order authorising collection. That court order would have to be applied for in the jurisdiction under which it is to be enforced.
True they can hassle you a bit but without the court order an collection agency is all bark no bite.
John Jordan says
I was “captured” or at least a rental cat licence plate was photographed in Pisa 5/8/2013. Fine notification was posted from Italy, I have the date stamped on the envelope 1/7/2014 360 days exactly or if I count the day of the offence 361 days. Coincidence I do not really think so. Unfortunately the postal time made it impossible for me to pay the reduced fine Euro 101. Additionally the Pisa website states that it is outside 60 day appeal time and I should now pay Euro 206. I would have grudgingly paid Euro 101 but I would have paid up.
I must also say that I have 3 such penalties on the 5th August 2013. 10:22am 10:40 am and 10:47am. I would have paid the Euro 303 however that is no longer permitted. Therefore I must now pay euro 628 to the city of Pisa.
The steps I have taken, are to prepare my appeals (in Italian)on grounds of delay and human rights act. Additionally on the poor quality of the evidence will form part of this communication. I will also cite European Court case C-224/00. As an (Irish) EU citizen based in the UK I know that I have a lot of protection from different treatment in EU countries.I will also state that I will return to Italy when informed of court proceedings and avail of free counsel and translation services as is my right under Human Rights legislation.
Hertz Italiana have already taken euro 128.10 from my credit card to inform the authorities my address etc (3 penalties). I have directed my credit card company to decline to pay any more charges from Hertz Italiana S.R.L. and received confirmation of this.
With the new tourist taxes and city hotel taxes I feel that the little bit extra that we always paid as travellers has become institutionalised. It feels unpleasant and I am no longer under the illusion of a welcome traveller but a outsider who is seen as a source of revenue. We are already looking at Croatia for our next family holiday. Italy has lost a very strong tourist advocate and a family of three very regular tourists. We returned from Tuscany/Umbria on 16/8/2014 to have these penalties awaiting us.
Alex Roe says
Hi John, I see this problem rumbles on – I had hoped the lack of recent comments may be a sign that the situation had changed – it seems this is not the case.
I wonder just how many others have been put off from ever returning to Italy by these irrational fines. Probably quite a few people seeing as this post has been read many tens of thousands of times.
Good luck with your legal challenge and do let us all know how it turns out if you have a spare moment.
Best,
Alex
Al says
Hi ozlemkan,
Normal? That’s open to debate. 🙂
But legal?
Excerpt from Art. 198,2 of the Italian Highway Code: “For limited traffic zones, the offender […] is subjected to the fine for each single violation.”
Read FAQ n°3: http://www.emo.nivi.it/Faq.aspx
Once the car rental company has provided your details to the police, it’s a matter between you (holder of the rental agreement) and the authorities.
Best,
Al
ozlemkan says
As I figure out the car rental company would withdraw double amount from my bank account with extra charges if I didnt pay it. This what I learned from Europcar, they wrote me a black mail :):
“If you don’t pay, the rental company might eventually pay the fine plus the late fees and pass
that on to you via your credit card company. Read the small print of the car rental
agreement you signed to see if they give themselves the right to do that.”
Sorry but I hate Italy now, it used to be my favorite country before…
David says
Hertz have kindly sent me 8 (yes 8) notices of admin fees (that they have ‘sustained’) – €341. I have not received any formal fine/notification from the civil authorities of my alleged infractions (No Transit Area Riservata).
It is distinctly possible or indeed probably that I unknowingly used these ZTL but of the 8 2 sets of 3 were minutes apart – it does not make sense.
On the back of the Hertz invoice is a copy (‘not for payment’) of the local fine notice – I will need to get it translated but it shows (fine?) amounts €15 up to €95.
If my maths is correct this could end costing €1,200.
Stunned.
ozlemkan says
Hi David and Al,
Poor you David but dont feel alone; I have 7 fines from ZTL 🙂 I rented the car in August 2013, Europcar withdraw 315euros from my credit card on January for 7 fines and this week I got the fine papers at the end (totally about 1060euros).
I checked the roads that is written on the fines, I saw that one is in front of my hotel via scala! and other 2 of them are in PZA DELL’UNITA’ITALIANA VIA PANZANI and very close to my hotel. It is also inteeresting that in the same street I got 2 fines in 2 minutes! Do u think it is normal and legal?
Do u think I can do something about my hotel place now? They didnt register my plate to the ZTL system when I arrived obviously… And the most important question If I wont pay the fines, CAN CAR RENTAL WITHDRAW MONEY FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT EVEN IF I CLOSED MY CREDIT CARD?
Martyn says
Hi, As many others have mentioned, I too have received three fines for driving in a restricted area in Rome, which I was unaware of. I too have been charged £30 for each infraction by the car rental company and now have fines on my desk for 113 euros each. Very nice (not). I have read many of the comments previous and can confirm that reading my fines it clearly states that the infractions occurred on the 17th, 20th & 21st of August 2012. I states also on the fines that as of the 11th Dec 2013 I am being fined by CORPO DI POLIZIA for these offences. Some 481 days later.. As I no longer live at the address these letters were sent to and the redirection will run out soon I will not be paying this ludicrous amount. I also will not be visiting Rome again. I hope their economy collapses due to lack of tourism.
Kevin says
Has anyone actually not paid these fines and if so, what happened?
Peter Coleman says
Here’s hoping you can help.
We were in Rome in August 2012. Booked in at the hotel and then drove round for a while site seeing before parking the car for three days.
Today (16 Jan 2014) received two fines for driving in ZTL zone.
Didn’t know it existed, but ignorance is no excuse.
The offence(s) are well in excess of the 360 day time limit.
Date of infraction is 20 Aug 2012
Date of ascertainment is 21 Jan 2013
Received 16 Jan 2014
Where do I stand? Can I safely ignore this? If the postie tries to deliver anything else that needs a signature I just might ignore them.
Look forward to any advice you may have.
Thank you
Pete
Al says
Hi Peter,
Either you ignore any unofficial last reminder letter you may receive and any future possible contact from a debt collection agency, or you appeal to the Prefect of Rome within 60 days.
Read September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Al Prefetto di Roma
Prefettura di Roma
via IV Novembre 119/A
00187 Roma
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al
J.M. says
Listen Al…I wont write a book on here and getting tired of it and you still haven’t answered my other questions…if the police or governemtn sends me a notice of a ticket after 365 days and I got the notice in 439 days..is the ticket good or not..meaning there has to be a certain amount of time to send a notice…so for the sake of other readers is the ticket void or not..now I see why I moved away from Italy…so for the readers and say YES or NO…
ciao
Al says
Listen J.M. from Canada…
If you had bothered to read closely April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment, you’d know that:
– Article 201,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Violations Notification) states that the offenders residing abroad must be notified within 360 days (NOT 365).
– The fine must be SENT (not received) by registered mail within 360 days of the alleged offence.
– Even if the time limit has well and truly run out, you must dispute your fine and appeal to the Prefect within 60 days from the day of receipt of the Official Notification.
Capisc?
So, don’t bother wasting your time and… mine.
Do not pay, do not appeal, ignore any collection agency that might unlawfully harass you, and if you ever feel like it, come back to beautiful Italy, you won’t get arrested at customs.
Addio,
Al
From the continent says
For those who understand italian, an interesting article from the magazine “Quattroruote” about the subject of discussion:
http://autodifesa.quattroruote.it/codice-della-strada/lo-straniero-paga-poco/
J.M. says
Not sure who will be reading this or sending me a reply if I do get one..but what if one gets a notice of traffic infraction by registered mail at 439 day after of the infraction that had occured?…and how can someone pay the fine at either police station or where ever it applies to and one doesnt see a traffic ticket on their windshield..my main question what is the maximum time period the police have to send of a notice of infraction?? or the police have the power to send a notice 50 years later if they wanna to..
Al says
Hi J.M.,
Why don’t you read the information at the top of this page, April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584) comment and scroll down through some of the more recent comments.
Best,
Al
J.M. says
Hi again..J.M. from Canada…I would basically like a yes or no answer is because reading some of these letters is going to make someone jump of a bridge or get locked up jail in Italy and stomp grapes and how in the hell are people going enjoy to come back to Italy and have certain woories of this ZLT bullshit…you know people come to Europe to enjoy themself’s and if the cops get their jollies for giving tickits to innocent toruist and want to enjoy their holidays and if the Hotels or Rental Car Agencies dont provide all the information we need on certain roads and it should be in writing and this way it may get the car company off the hook is because they put it in writing…one cant not go by their word if they told us or not..the cops will believe the car company..I would pay a $10000 a day to enjoy my holiday and wont give $1.00 to this crap the the Italian police force will do and hope they will scare the shit out of people and pay up..lets put it this AL..if this goes on Italy and maybe other places in Europs is maybe its time we spend holidays in other places thats more curtious by providing proper information for us to know…and mainly this car issues..I was born in Italy and first trip back in 53 years and what a welcome greeting I got….I’ll stomp grapes IF IF IF I come there and they catch me one way or another and as I said before..I wont pay a dollar to some fat ass that has nothing to do and smile and grin and he gets his Christmas bonus..WHY DONT THEY PUT THESE ZLT SIGNS AND MORE VISIBLE AND THEY WE WONT DRIVE IN THERE….BUT THEY KEEP THE SIGNS LOW AND THIS THEY MAKE THEIR EXTRA MONEY FOR THE CITY…I have read many of people’s concerns and most of them say is to pay and get it over with..here are a few questions that only needs a words or one word
(1)..is there any consequences if one doesnt pay the fine..through no fault of the driver
(2).. I get a notice by mail 436 or 437 or so and after the infraction…is this ticket alive or dead
(3)..and if they get collection agency to harrass us in Canada or wherever esle in the world..is it legal for them to haunt us and put a dead horse’s head in our bedroom.
(4)..excuse some of my language but I kept it mild and could say much worse…it also seems to .
…to appeal the infraction is a waste of time is because no one seems to win…
and should anybody come back to Italy and take a change is how can they catch someone if they didnt pay a certain fine…at airport when you arrive or leave by checking passport and scan the computer for any outstanding fines…or only if you get caught in a ZLT sone or maybe a speeding by an actuall cop and he does a scan on that person..they can make you pay before they will releaze the car back to you…if any of this story make senses or not…and again mainly..WHAT IF WE DONT PAY ANY TYPE OF TICKET….TELL THEM TO GO STOMP GRAPES THEMSELF..OR JUST GO ON HOLIDAYS IN THE STATES AND AT LEAST WE KNOW WHAT CERTAI NSIGNS SAY AND MEAN..OR TRAVEL TO HAWAII AND LAY ON THE BEACH AND WHO NEEDS TO DRIVE..
CIAO
J.M.
J.M. says
PS;…. I think some of us or most of us are getting sick and tired of all kinds of certain things to read on here …if appeals dont work…why bother wasting our own time….anyways I wont jump of any bridges of all the bullshit the cops do out there….is there other countries that do the same things or just Italy isnt civilized yet and money hungry like Uncle Luigi and violin case…
ciao
JM
Filip Gjetvaj says
Thanks for the reply. I really don’t know how did I pay the toll it was almost 4 years ago.
Regards
Filip
Alex Roe says
Not at all easy to remember, I’m sure. Could you look at bank or credit card statements to check? I know this will be time consuming, but it might mean you can write back and say: I paid, so why should I pay again?
Cheers,
Alex
Filip Gjetvaj says
I thought about this but my bank deletes record after 1 year and I never keep hard copies because don’t expect to have such claim after more than few months. Also shouldn’t they have some evidence. They should prove that I’m guilty and not me to prove to be innocent, moreover is there any time restriction in which they can send this. If not people could get tickets for not paying highway in 80s or 90s just because Nivi decides like this.
Best,
Filip
Alex Roe says
Oh well, no luck on that front.
As for time limits – yes they do exist but I’m not sure how they apply in this case, as I mentioned before, this is a new one for me. I think the limit is around 5 years – but would need to check that. Italy is well known for sending out fines at just about the last minute!
Cheers,
Alex
Al says
Hi Filip,
Read November 7, 2012 at 7:51 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34466).
It’s a pity you don’t have your bank/credit card statements. You should keep them in electronic format for at least five years.
I assume when you logged into Nivi’s website, there was no photographic evidence, a picture of the rear of your car. If they have no picture, how do they know the name of the tollgate (Salbertrand)?
Usually, when the toll charge is not paid or is only partially paid, a non-payment/outstanding payment report (Rapporto di Mancato Pagamento Pedaggio/Rmpp) is issued directly at the tollgate. Rmpp can be paid within 15 days, without surcharge.
In your case, what could have happened is that your credit card was accepted, the toll bar went up, but subsequently, for some reason, the payment didn’t go through.
I would email SITAF (Società Italiana per il Traforo Autostradale del Frejus – Ufficio Mancati Pagamenti : tel. 0122.621.695 e 0122.621.697 (ore 09.00-12.00/14.00-16.00) – a32.autofrejus@sitaf.it).
Ask for some photographic evidence/detailed explanation , don’t forget to mention their “Rmpp” number: 3191236169 and, if you understand Italian, let them know that they can reply in Italian.
Or email Nivi with the same request, or, even better, email them both! 🙂
I wouldn’t pay before I fully understood what happened!
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Filip Gjetvaj says
Hi Alex,
I have a question for you regarding a receievd notice for non-payment of motorway toll. Last week my father recieved a mail from company caled Nivi Credit (website nivi.it) that he didn’t pay motorway toll in March 2010. I was driving his car that day on the motorway and also 100% sure to pay all the tolls, actually don’t see how could I go without paying.
First I believed it was just a scam because in the letter it says it was sent from Florence and on the envelope there was a post mark of Zurich. The letter was sent by ordirary mail. But after some research on interenet it seems that this firm is completly legal and operating for many years. Do you know if they are legal or not?
Unfortunatelly as it passed almost 4 years I don’t have ticket (bill) any more therefore it is not possible to prove that I paid it. And not to forget they didn’t give me any evidence that I didn’t pay it.
Any suggestions what to do?
Best
Filip
Alex Roe says
Hi Filip,
Yes, Nivi Credit is legitimate. As for the claim you did not pay the toll, without the ticket it is virtually impossible to contest the non-payment notice.
You have two options: Pay or ignore the notice. If you think you will return to Italy in the same car then paying should end the matter and ensure you don’t encounter problems when visiting Italy in the future. If you don’t pay, you will probably end up with other notices and the amount requested will probably increase. It is unlikely that Nivi Credit will attempt to chase you though the courts in your own country.
It sounds as if the fine is linked to the car and not the driver, so if you were to come to Italy in a different car not owned by your father, you would probably be OK.
Seek the advice of others too.
Best,
Alex
PS Keep those Italian motorway toll tickets and payment receipts for at least 10 years!
Alex Roe says
Just come up in conversation about this, Filip – technically, it’s virtually impossible to leave Italy’s motorway system without paying, so the reason for the fine is highly questionable. Did you have an accident and were you taken away in an ambulance? This might explain the fine.
You might like to write back to Nivi Credit and point this out. The notification you received could have been lost in the post.
Alex
Filip Gjetvaj says
Well the problem is that I live in Croatia so not going to Italy is not an option for both me and my father. Ticket is issued to his name and also license plates of car are written. It is entitled: Object : Non Payment or motorways tool – Art 176. Italian Highway Code
You wrote: it’s virtually impossible to leave Italy’s motorway system without paying. And this is my point exactly there was no accident or something similar. It was a normal drive through Italy as I did it before and after many times. Now I’; worried that if they see that I paid to get rid of them they will start to send me tickets all the time. As you said there is no way to defend without highway ticket and if they send it to you after 4 years I bet that 90% of people doesn’t have them anymore. To me this look like a typical racket and therefore I\m looking how to defend my self.
Telling that I didn’t receive the letter is not an option anymore because I fell on their trick. They send you user name and password to log in their web page. I thought there will be an additional explanation but there isn’t. I’m pretty sure that they keep record how log in. Also don’t think so that this would stop them because they already want me to pay 20 euro although the original toll was 7.6. It is not the matter of money but more principles and to prevent it to occur again.
this are links to see what I got:
http://postimg.org/image/gxhm5kmd3/
http://postimg.org/image/uu27cqdcj/
Regards
Filip
Alex Roe says
Quick question, Filip: Did you pay in cash or with a credit or other card?
As you come to Italy, paying may be your only option, assuming you cannot prove in any way you did not use that motorway toll gate. Italy’s authorities do get license plate info wrong sometimes.
It won’t be easy to avoid future payment requests and I don’t know what you can do aside from drawing attention to your case to the Croatian authorities or reporting the case to Italy’s police and asking them to investigate – point out that it is impossible to leave Italy’s motorways without paying unless you have an accident or there is a strike by motorway toll booth operators.
This is not something I’ve heard of before and I have no idea whether it’s common or not.
Best,
Alex
rene says
Hi all,
So this is story as usual, I got fine and need some advice how to successfully avoid payment.
My travel to Italy: 11.09-23.09.2012
1. I noticed in 16.11.2012 that car renting company: Maggiore has charged me 2*37 euros (for giving information to authorities)
2. When I asked renting company for explanation I got to know for what the money was taken for (explained in p 3.)
3. IN answer letter, renting company provided me with web page information how to find out detailse of the payment (company web page)
4. 4.10.2013 I got signed letter from: with fines (on stamp there was date : 16.09.2013 but on the back of the yellow envelop 04.08.2013).
5. The offence: Circulating in restrictid traffic zone… Date of offence: 11.09.2012; place : Via di Simone Giovanni, Pisa.
Now, I have few urgent questions 🙂
1. I’m I entiteled to pay?
2. If not should I appeal to prefect of .
3. If they will reject my appeal, what are the conciquences?
best regards!
Rene
Alex Roe says
Hi Rene,
Did you commit the offence of driving in a restricted traffic zone? If you did, they you should pay the fine. If you did not commit the offence, appeal.
If an appeal to a prefect is rejected, the fine will double:
Appeal to a Prefect
If you lodge an appeal with a prefect, which is easier, you may lose and be ordered to pay double the fine. This is the risk inherent in appealing. And appeals to Italian prefects are, I’m told, rarely successful. The fine collection agencies, from what I’ve seen, tend to advise people to appeal to prefects. In the main this is suggested because it is easier for foreign drivers to do, indeed, the EMO agency helpfully provides those who ask with all the necessary appeal documentation in English.
Best,
Alex
rene says
I might, because I was kind of lost in the traffic. My point about with the question is , what about this 360 day rule? Does it matter or does my dates make any case here?
Alex Roe says
If you read the main article, Rene, you’ll find that we, Al and myself, believe that if a notification of a fine reaches you more than 360 days after the date of the offence, you can point this out and request that the fine be annulled. You could try this. If you do, give them a time limit to reply to you stating that if you have not heard from them within, say, 14 days, you will consider that the fine has been cancelled and that the matter has closed. Keep copies of all correspondence and be aware that if the fine is not actually cancelled, it could show up when you try to hire a car in Italy or elsewhere in Europe. Really, you need written confirmation that the fine has been cancelled and you should take this with you whenever you go hire a car – just in case.
!!! Please note any advice offered here is informal and needs to be confirmed by a lawyer !!!
Best,
Alex
rene says
So can i write this in English? The ugly truth is, that it is hard to undrstand how they want to get the payment:D It is mostly in Italian and only partially in English. Also the question is, is the problems with not paying only linked to rent a car in the future or could i face a bank account arrest?
rene:)
Alex Roe says
Hi Rene,
Yes, you can write in English. You can usually pay by bank transfer or credit card. Not paying could lead to problems renting a car in your name in the future in Italy and in other countries, or that’s that I have been told. Don’t worry about your bank account. I assume the fine is valid and you were where they say you were on the date of the offence.
Best,
Alex Roe
Mario Ricci says
Salut René,
Tu devrais aller voire avec Google l’article “Parcheggia dove vuoi se sei straniero la multa non conta”.
Tu pourras voire que ces ammendes ne sobt que des simples avis bonairs de paiement et si tu t’en foutes les communes n’y peuvent rien faire.
N’aies aucune peur, ces ammendes peuvent etre poursuivies seulement envers les residents d’Italie (italiens ou non).
Seulement si tu es résident peuvent-ils essayer de te chercher chez toi.
Aussi il ne s’agit pas de loi pénale mais de droit administratif sans conséquence aucune pour non-résidents.
Tu peut dons bien te rélaxer et jéter tout cela à la poubelle.
C’est dommage que les auteurs de ce blog n’aient pas le courage d’expliquer tout ca comme le fait la presse locale.
FOR ENGLISH SPEAKERS:
Please use Google to find this article
“Parcheggia dove vuoi se sei straniero la multa non conta”.
You will see how the fines are merely a request to pay and if you
don’t the city police cannot demand anything.
Have no fear since fines can be enforced only if you are a resident of
Italy. Only if you were a resident would they try and collect at your
Italian address.
Nor are they a criminal offence but only an administrative offence
carrying no other action for residents elsewhere.
Relax and dump all the bloody paperwork if you are non-residents.
It’s a pity that the authors of this blog are afraid to explain this in this way when the local press does it.
Cheers to all of you from
Mario Ricci
Via Trittico 15
Viareggio
(to show I can throw the stone but will not hide)
Alex Roe says
Hi Mario,
We are not afraid to explain this, but find it hard to believe. You need something more convincing than an article in a local paper. While you might be right on this, it is my understanding that you could end up causing people big problems when they attempt to hire/rent a car in the future – either in Italy or elsewhere. I know of a case, in Italy, where this has happened.
Be aware that I do not agree with your advice. Are you a lawyer? Do you have any legal basis for your claims? If not, beware. If you are wrong, you could end up in legal trouble yourself.
This blog does not encourage the non payment of fines.
Best,
Alex
fang says
We are Australian.
Yesterday in the mail we received a letter by regular post from NiviCredit inviting us to make payment for non payment of motorway tolls. The date on the letter was 7 Ottobre 2013.
The date of alleged toll travel was 7/4/11 which on my count makes it exactly 2 years 6 months since the date of travel.
This date of travel coincides with the night my husband got lost in northern Italy and ended up being waved through a toll booth by a man who spoke no english (my husband speaks no italian). He took a wrong turn as directed by the NavMan and 12 minutes later ended up back at the exact same tollbooth and was waved through a second time.
Of course we accept we are liable for to pay the toll as he didn’t pay the fee at the tollbooth as he had no cash having just flown in to the nearby airport and collected the car, and they had no facilities to accept payment by credit card.
About six months after we got home from Italy we were notified of the admin fee x2 charged for notifying the authorities of the responsible driver details. That admin fee was around 25 euros x2 from memory
The total fee sought by the NiviCredit – 17.73 Euros. This is 2 toll fees of 4.31 plus their costs.
I made the decision to pay up online by credit card as “invited” rather than wait for any formal notice especially as I would hate us to end up on a blacklist for hirecars.
Thanks for the blog page, interesting reading!
Martyn E says
Thanks to Alex and Al and everyone else for all their work on this page – with the help of the information here I have just sent a letter to the Prefect of Cagliari for a parking fine received 15 months after the event. The alleged violation was “Parked in a paying-fee area beyond the allowed time limit on the displayed ticket”. At the time there was no notice attached to the car. I would be interested to know if anyone else has had a similar experience?
I’m particularly interested because, having done some research, it seems that in Italian law there is no obligation for the authorities to actually attach a fixed penalty notice to the car for a parking violation. Given their own interpretation of “accertamento” in article 201 of the Codice della Strada, and the fact that Italian law also lets them treat you as “guilty until proven innocent” for such violations, how would a foreign resident reasonably be expected to defend him/herself against potential official corruption, for example a post-issued ticket?
I plan to do some more research on this matter, and in particular I would like to discover if it is legal for the authorities to willfully misinterpret both the Codice della Strada (where “accertamento” refers to the ascertainment of a violation, and most certainly not of the identity of the individual) and the Constitutional Court ruling on the absolute insuperability of the 360 day limit. In the meantime however many thanks once again for this site!
Mario Ricci says
Cheers Everybody!
I am the bearer of good news to all the non-Italians who write to this site.
As I have maintained all along the fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of requests, yes requests because they are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-hungry city councils.
For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”:
“Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value).
Here is the link:
http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027
Scrap all the bloody paperwork at the most you’ll get debited some 20-30 euros through your credit card only if you hired a car for the car hire to pass your name and address to the city police.
Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations.
Cheers
Mario Ricci – Viareggio
.yields
Alex Roe says
Thanks for this Mario – but, and as we have discussed before, until there’s some formal confirmation that this situation exists, I would advise readers to think very carefully before they decide to ignore fines for traffic offences in Italy.
I am aware of a situation where someone attempted to hire a car in Italy but before the hire could go ahead, the person was required to settle outstanding fines. Had the fines not been settled, the person involved would not have been able to hire a car in their name. Note too, that it is my understanding that unpaid fines in Italy may be flagged as unpaid when someone attempts to hire a car in other nations in Europe.
Before deciding to pay or not, contact a motoring organisation and seek their advice. Or contact a hire/rental company and ask if there are any unpaid fines linked to your driving licence. You should really do this before travelling and bring a reserve driving licence with you. So, for example, if the your partner’s licence is flagged for unpaid fines, you will be able to hire a car in your own name (though if you have hired a car in Italy before, you too may end up with unpaid fines linked to your licence).
Adopt Mario’s advice at your own risk. Italy Chronicles accepts no responsibility for what its readers decide to do and the advice offered on Italy Chronicles is informal and must be confirmed with appropriate and authoritative sources.
Thanks for reading.
Alex Roe – Publisher of Italy Chronicles
Yoav says
Hi!
Yesterday I recieved A parking report in Pompei, even though I parked in a legl place and payed for it (I have the parking ticket). I am a tourist and this is a rented car (from Europcar). What do I need to do in oreder to cancel the report?
Thanks,
Yoav
Tom C says
Hi Al,
I have received a letter with the yellow envelpe attached to the back. It says recommande on the front.
It is addressed from
NCDS
C/O FIRENZE CMP
50100 Firenze italia
It states a date of ascertainment of 9/4/2012 but the infraction was 4/24/2012. On the back it states the clock starts at the date of ascertainment. I am understanding that is not true for non residents.
Just making sure I understand.
Is it too late to send the email to EMO? I cant remember if I did that but this letter starts with “It was not possible to contest the following violation immediately inasmuch as the violation was observed using approved video control system.
Thank you, Tom
Al says
Hi Tom,
Yep, not true for non residents.
Three options:
1 – You send the email to EMO with documentary proof of your hotel booking. Make sure you get an answer asap.
2 – Even though you haven’t signed for the official fine (yellow card still attached), you send the appeal letter to the Prefect of Rome within 60 days from the date of receipt of the certified letter.
3 – You ignore this letter and any subsequent demands from EMO or Cedar Financial.
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
NCDS –> Nuovo Codice della Strada/New Highway Code.
CMP –> Centro di Meccanizzazione Postale/Postal Mechanization Center.
Al
Michael Gordon says
Hi Alex,
I just received 2 letters from the Municipality of Pisa, one for a parking offense and one for being in a restricted traffic zone. Of course, I wasn’t aware I was in the wrong and we double checked all the parking restrictions before we did, but then we don’t speak Italian! We had the parking fine on our windscreen, and we paid the full amount by of 39 Euros by IBAN a couple of months later after an enormous amount of letters back and forth and much Google translating.
I’m ok with paying these as it’s just one of the drawbacks of driving abroad, but they’ve sent me a fine for the parking one which is now 84 Euros. I guess they’re being sticklers as the original 60 days from fine to payment must have lapsed.
These have been issued within the 360 day limit so it doesn’t sound like I’ve got a leg to stand on.
All correspondence has to be in Italian, so that doesn’t help matters. Is there any body in the UK I can ask to help in this matter?
Kindest regards,
Michael.
Ayevee says
@Michael,
I have had 2 fines for driving in the bus lane in Florence from my holidays last year. I am a careful driver yet did not see any clear markings so ended up ignoring the fines. Its been over 12 months and during this time have been to Italy 3-4 times for work with no issues and recently drove again in Italy few weeks back without any problem or being stopped.
Although I don’t suggest ignoring the fine if one makes a genuine mistake but if the marking are not clear then there is a element of doubt which is why I decided to not pay. You’ve done well by paying and if I was in your shoes then I would ignore any subsequent demands, I live in UK and car agency had my UK licence and address on file yet in last 13 months I have seen no enforceable action from Italian authorities.
Hope it helps, your call now to ignore or pay up the extra ransom.
cheers…
Aye
Al says
Hi Michael,
Ignore or pay up, that is the question.
I know what I would do. 🙂
Best,
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Gabby says
Hi There,
We were in Italy just two weeks ago and where going to Milan from Orio al Serio with a rental car (from Europecar) when we passed through a toll, it was new for us as we live in Malta and we have no tolls. Anyway, we took a ticket from the booth and at the end of the Auto Strada we went through a booth that said we had to pay by Cards by mistake not Cash. We inserted the ticket into the machine and inserted the Visa, however the barrier did not open! The machine spit out the Visa but the ticket got held by the machine. We tried to call for help by pressing a red button but it did not work either. We reversed the car and went through a man operated booth. When we told him what happened and that the machine took our ticket and all he did was give us a ticket saying we had to pay a EUR 67 something when all we had to pay was EUR 3 something!!
The ticket said we had 15days to pay it and tomorrow will be the 15th day.
Can anybody help please??
Many thanks & Best Regards,
Gabby
Alex Roe says
Hi Gabby,
You had a nasty bit of bad luck and it’s hard to know just what you could do to get you out of the fine.
About the only thing I could suggest is writing, in English, to the Autostrada operator. Explain, politely, what happened and that as it was the first time, you were not familiar with the system – the signposting can be confusing for first timers, I know – and ask them whether you would be prepared to drop fine in view of the circumstances. It might work.
You can find contact details for the Autostrada company, in English, here: http://www.autostrade.it/en/contatti.html
Good luck.
Alex
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Jacob Blomqvist says
Hello out there!
I’ve also recieved tickets to from violation restricted areas, etcetera…
I just sent an email to the Italian Parliament (info@parlamento.it, subject: Ripped off by the Italian Parliament) with a couple of harsh remarks and conclusions. By using the mail address info@parliament.it, it gets registered, and thts the point. I quote the message here:
To the members of the Italian Parliament
One year ago, I visited Rome with my daughter. The last day of that stay, in your beautiful capital, we rented a car.
Nice to go around and have a look at the city and it’s surroundings, wasn’t it? Got lost sometimes – but Rome is a big city, too?
Well, what happened next? Oh yes, a couple of weeks ago, two envelopes landed in my letterbox here in Sweden. What did they contain, you ask? A fine by around 100 Euros each. For something called “violation of a restricted area”.
Now, my good Italian members of Parliament: I will NOT pay this shitty astronomic fine just because your corrupt, half criminal society has got the brilliant idea of stealing from tourists visiting your country. How ingenious it may seem, maybe this will fall back on your self, don’t you think? I mean, this law to get some extra-incomes-from-innocent-foreigners that you have invented may be unique in the world. But your country’s economy certainly is not! And if you want the rest of the EU to give you a hand, before you go down the drain like Greece, I suggest that you THAKE AWAY THIS LAW and recall all your stinking fines from all over the world!
Well, if you don’t do that what can I do? No much, of course. But the least I can do is to talk to my friends and neighbores about Italian culture – the down side of it. At least some will prefer Spain and Portugal.
Then I can also vote for any party here in Sweden that says: LET ITALY CLEAN IT’S OWN DIRTY ECONOMY or LET IT DROP TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. Because I don’t give a damn!
Regards,
Jacob Blomqvist
Stockholm, SWEDEN
Best regards,
Jacob
Mario Ricci says
Hei Jakob,
Sorry about your misadventures for which as an Italian I offer you an apology. However cheer up there’s some good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Majken Andersen says
I read your blog with great interest.
My boyfriend and I visited Milan in April 2013 and rented a car to get to and from our hotel. We prebooked a hotel within Area C (ZTL zone) and asked upon our arrival what to do. They said to just buy a ticket in the parking meter outside the hotel and that was it. We did and thought everything was ok until two weeks ago when we received two notices from the car rental company saying we received two fines for driving in the ZTL zone (on the day of our arrival and the day of our departure). We are not sure if we should have done more? But we did what we were told by the staff at the hotel.
We haven’t received the actual fines from the local authorities yet, but only copies from the rental company. However, you write that you can complain if you have a prebooked hotel within the ZTL zone. Could you please advise me where to find more information regarding this? I really don’t know what to do from here. We did everything right, or so we thought. I really hope you can help 🙂
Al says
Hi Majken,
“We are not sure if we should have done more?”
So am I!
From these links:
http://www.comune.milano.it/portale/wps/portal/CDM?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/contentlibrary/Elenco+Siti+tematici/Elenco+Siti+tematici/Area+C/English/
“To enter in “Area C” you must purchase and activate an entrance ticket. The ticket worth 5 euro can be purchased at the parking meters, …”
“The ticket must be activated no later than midnight of the next day access…”
http://www.comune.milano.it/portale/wps/portal/CDM?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/contentlibrary/Elenco+Siti+tematici/Elenco+Siti+tematici/Area+C/FAQ/
The surveillance cameras detect only the license plates of cars entering “Area C”.
When buying at Banca Intesa Sanpaolo cashpoints, parking meters and the call center 800 437 437, the entrance ticket is activated at the same time of purchase.
Was your 5€ ticket ever activated? Did you buy the right ticket?
You could contact the hotel and ask them.
As far as I know, there are no exceptions for tourists with a hotel booking in “Area C”.
Are you sure the fines are for driving in the ZTL and not for “circulating on a lane reserved for public transportation”?
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
SteW says
Hi Al,
I received one fine today from EMO for a Lucca ZTL, and know another will come shortly from Bologna. I’m an out-of country resident (Canadian), and this fine was dated May 28, 2012. As it’s 360+ days and I understand from your posts there’s a good argument to be made citing the time limit statue. But I’m not confident enough to risk potentially doubling the fine if it’s rejected.
So my question : How much post-appeal feedback have you had from folks who have brought this argument? What proportion of the responses were positive vs negative? Are Lucca & Bologna notable for leaning to either the negative or positive when responding to the 360 day appeals?
Thanks
Al says
Hi SteW,
Out of the dozens of (360 day limit) appeals sent, three reports of negative responses from the same misguided civil servant in the Sassari (Sardinia) Prefecture! And one from Verona.
In most cases, they haven’t bothered to reply.
A Prefect has up to 360 days to give you an answer.
After 360 days without reply, the appeal is deemed to be accepted. (Art. 204,1-bis – Prefect’s measures – Italian Highway Code)
Best,
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Jason Piombino says
Hi AI and Luvi,
I too received a speeding ticket from Venezia on July 12th 2012!! Like Luvi, my ticket was sent registered mail and I received it just recently and signed on Tuesday July 23rd. It was sent postmarked from Italy on the 17th. This would mean it falls outside the 360 limit.
It states i have broken the following articles of the Highway Code:
“142/9 the speed of the car was between 40 and 60km/h over the speed limit with 06 points on the driving license. The car’s speed was 106 Km/h where the speed limit is 50Km/h. Considering the margin of the art. 345 DPR 495/92, the speed exceeded exactly 50,70 Km/h the speed limit. The fine was imposed using an AUTOVELOX 105SE MATRICOLA, perperty of the Comune of Venice, approved by the Ministry of Public Works. The police speed camera has the original photo is at offender’s disposal at our Comando Polizia Municipale – Ufficio Contravvenzioni, at opening time (D.L. 196/03). Additional penalty; confiscation of the driving license.”
“Owner/hirer’s data HERTZ FLEET (ITALIANA) SRL, address VIA D>CASALE CAVALLARI 201 ROMA”
“It was impossible to fine immediately, according to art. 201 c.1 bis del D. L.vo 30/04/1992 n. 285 and following amendment.”
“To settle the fine, is allowed the payment of a minimum fare of Euro 500,00 plus Euro 13,80 of postal carges and Euro 10,00 of operating expenses, Tot. Euro within 60 days after the notification of this ticket 523,80.”
“Payment methods are listed below”
It then goes on to list terms of payment and or Appeal (art. 203 segg.)
“The notify date is the same as the postmark”
First off, i was traveling with my whole family (5 people in a Fiat Bravo) there is no way i was going that fast… but definitely the 360 days have elapsed. No way i want to pay over 500 Euro’s!!!
AI – what to do?
Should i appeal to the Prefect and risk getting rejected?
Should i email or call the comune di Venezia?
Call Hertz?
Thank so much in advance.
Sincerely,
Jason Piombino
Al says
Hi Jason,
As you wrote, this speeding ticket, sent on July 17th, 2013 falls outside the 360 day limit.
I would appeal (within 60 days) to the Prefect of Venezia.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Enclose with the letter, not only a readable copy of the formal notification, but also Decision 198/1996” of the Italian Constitutional Court with the relevant passages highlighted.
Page 3: “Come si nota dal raffronto […] siano stati identificati successivamente.”
Page 4: “si consentirebbe una protrazione […] ai residenti all’estero;”
Write: “Allega: fotocopia del verbale notificato, sentenza Corte Costituzionale 10-17 giugno 1996, n. 198.”
Download Decision 198/1996 as a pdf document from: http://www.cortecostituzionale.it/actionPronuncia.do
(“Anno: 1996, Numero/i: 198”, click on “Ricerca”)
(Click on the adobe reader logo – top right of the page)
If the appeal is denied, I’d wait peacefully for them to drag me to court. 🙂
Best,
Al
Jason Piombino says
Thank Al. One quick question as I am about to send off my letter with the enclosed documents as you suggested. Where exactly do i write, “Allega: fotocopia del verbale notificato, sentenza Corte Costituzionale 10-17 giugno 1996, n. 198”
Thank you so much for your help, Jason
Al says
Jason.
Read again closely April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Just above the date and signature.
Al
Jason Piombino says
Hi Alex,
I finally received notification back from the Prefect pertaining to my appeal that I lodged back in September. It appears they denied my appeal. I am very disappointed. I do not understand the writing as it is all in Italian. The only English states: in reference to the order injunctive relief at issue, we announce that your worship is required to pay an administrative fine of 1,035.00 Euro (penalty determined by the prefect and notification of the order 11.20) payable only by bank transfer using the following bank account:
Bank payment to / Fuer Bankbezahlung / Pour payer avec la Banque:
Servizio Tesoreria Comune Di Venezia
Polizia Municipale
Contravvenzioni C.D.S
etc, etc.
Then it says:
“Failure to pay the fine will result in the activation of the registration procedure on the rolls and levying of the penalty with a further increase in costs and surcharges required by law.”
There is also another couple of paragraphs written in only Italian and a whole other page written in only Italian which looks to be an explanation of things. It is a lot to type. Was wondering if I could email it to you and you could possibly interpret it and tell me the basics of what it says?
I am a bit concerned about this. Based on what I’ve read and following he appeal letter instructions, I did everything as outlined in this blog. I showed without a doubt that the original fine was sent to me weeks beyond the 365 days of the date of infraction. Why do you think it was denied? Is this just BS scare tactic and should i wait peacefully for them to drag me in 🙂 ?
Alex Roe says
Hi Jason, sorry to hear about this.
Bearing in mind the amount of money involved, it may be worth your while to speak to lawyers in Italy before deciding what to do next. I know one in Milan who speaks English who could probably help you – ask for an estimate of fees if you want to go down this route.
If you want to do this, reply and I can send you contact details for the lawyer. The lawyer may also be able to advise you whether you are obliged to pay or not though you may have to pay for this advice.
Let me know.
Best,
Alex
Al says
Hi Jason,
To be precise, the fine was sent 370 days after the date of infraction (July 12th 2012 –> July 17th 2013), 10 days beyond the 360 (not 365) day notification time limit.
“Why do you think it was denied?”
Because the Prefect’s underling misrepresented (intentionally or out of sheer stupidity) the law, because he doesn’t give a damn, because foreign tourists/drivers are ignorant/easy targets and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t help to alleviate Italy’s economic difficulties, …
Disregard any future possible contact from a debt collection agency.
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Alex Roe says
Do what you feel is best, Jason. Al knows plenty about this sticky subject too!
The only thing you might want to check up on is whether you are likely to be flagged in a car rental agency database for non-payment of fines. How you can check this, I don’t know and I have no idea when you might be flagged, or if it will happen. All I know, from a tourism business owner in Tuscany is that it can happen.
It is not improbable that Italy is treating foreign motorists unjustly, I’m afraid.
Cheers,
Alex
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Tyler says
Jason,
What ended up happening to your situation? What did you decide to do once the Prefect rejected your appeal?
What was the result?
I am thinking of appealing myself for a speeding violation >360 days.
Thanks!
Tyler
Luvi says
Hi Al:
Thanks for this very informational website. I recently received on July 10th & 11th, 2013 – two tickets for speeding on highway near Venezia (Venice), Italy. Speeding ticket was issued on July 7th, 2012. I also received another threat that since my speed was 30Kms/h more than the allowed, I have to pay !82.00 Euros and 03 points on my driving license. Not sure what I should do as I do not remember much about the incident that happened a year ago. Any advise?
Al says
Hi Luvi,
If the fines (mailed via registered mail) were sent over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation, then they are invalid.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Read June 5, 2013 at 3:50 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-35616).
Best,
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Silviu says
Hi Al, congratulations for this helpful blog.
I’ve been in Italy/Firenze 2 years ago (2011) with a car rented in Germany.
These days, I have received this fine of 76 EU plus 52.04 EU for “procedural and notification costs” ? :).
Violation was “circulated on a lane reserved for other vehicle”. I don’t even know when that happened as I’m pretty focused when I drive.
Is it possible? After 2 years?What will be your friendly advise for me? I would write a letter to the Prefect, but as you said there are not too many chances to have the fine cancelled. I would pay the fine too to avoid other hassles. If I pay right away, how much is the reduced fine?
I also don’t plan to go in Italy in the next 3 years :). Please let me know what you think.
Thanks a lot for your time.
Silviu
Al says
Hi Silviu,
After 2 years this fine is invalid.
This is the reduced amount.
Did you receive the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” or the official “Violation of the Highway Code Report” via registered mail (detachable yellow card).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Date of infraction?
Date of ascertainment (identification)?
Date stamp on the letter?
Best,
Al
Silviu says
There is a “Violation of Highway Code report” sent to me.
– incident happened on 5/06/2011
– violation prepared on 26/07/2011
– “responsible party has been identified on 20/08/2012
– ….”we confirm that on 13/06/2013 report was notified and forwarded to the office in charge of notification”.
The letter with the stamp was sent to me in June 2013, with detachable orange card.
Al says
Silviu,
It took them a little over a year to identify the “responsible party”, I don’t know if I believe that.
Anyway, I would never pay this invalid fine, sent over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation.
Al
Silviu says
Thanks again Alex.
Your answers were helpful.
Michael says
Dear Silviu, I had a rather similar case some years ago. I received a fine from Rome, stating the same reason. Very well done, in proper foreign language and in due time (within 210 days). I asked for evidence and did not pay. It had no follow-up. As at that time I scanned the documents in, by accident I looked at them recently. And trying to remember where the cases where, it gave me an idea to check on …..Google Street View. To my greatest surprise I discovered (years after !), that at least in one case at the address indicated in the fine notification, there is absolutely no way/route reserved for other vehicle (actually it was the bus lane mentioned, but there is no bus lane there !), as it was pretended that I used ! I do not even remember to have driven on that street ! (as looking to the map now !) This produced me interesting thoughts. I have the impression that the fines sent to me are false ! Nevertheless, those who prepared them should be close to police and have access to international car registration databases. There may be people who produce false, indicating probably there own bank account, simply having notified your car in the region. Once you left Italy, and particularly if you are living far from Italy you obviously are not in the position to verify the veridicity of the statements of the fine. Not even the data of the authority demanding to pay. Many people are certainly obedient and will immediately pay. Which is the trick these falsifiers may use. So, my advice, check carefully the veridicity of the statement in the fine and ask for evidence.
Stefanie Philippe says
Hey Al,
Just received a ticket in Venice from one of their water bus companies. There was no place to purchase tickets at our stop, hoping we could purchase one whilst on the bus or when we got off and instead we got fined. I’m only in Italy for another 5 days (heading to Rome after day of issue) which is also when they want me to pay the fine before it starts increasing. I’ll be back home in Australia shortly anyway with no plans to come back here in the next few years. What’s the worst that could happen if I don’t pay it? The address my friend gave them was wrong but they have my passport number and thats the thing that worries me.
Al says
Hi Stefanie,
I believe it was possible to ask the boat attendant for a ticket as soon as you were on board.
An Italian cop won’t come knocking on your door down under. 🙂
Best,
Al
Frank Engqvist says
Dear Al and all,
After spending alot of time in Italy and in a rented car I had to sign for a blank envelope, with another envelope inside. Either the postman nor the envelope could statethat this letter came from Italy. OK, so far so good. The letter came from “Commune Di La Valle Agordina, Provincia Di Belluno” and It took awhile to understand that this was some sort of fine and it was some sort of traffic fine. Do I have to tell everyone that the translation from Italian to English is so bad so when I later on have to translate this to Swedish it looks like XX (can not be posted here). I got all the above posts included, more or less but I have NOT been billed by the Car rental office, no connection to EMO or Nivi. I can see that I have to pay €139 for something but can´t find what the violation actually is. There was only ONE page in the envelope, typed in four languages, Italian, German, English and French. Stamped by “Polizia Municipale”. The letter X states the violation on the first side and here is where the trouble starts.
It says:
1. Sorpassava/nonostante fosse vietato da apposito cartello stradale – Overtaking/ prohibited by an appropriate sign forbidding. Does this mean that I should have seen a sign that states “You can NOT pass other cars”?
2. On page 2 of the letter they state where and when the violation was, 23.03.2013 and the report was written 02.04.2013 and “Town Police – Verification of violation of the highway code (no. 285), It was impossible for us to contest the below mentioned violation (art.200 of the decree). According to the Decree (art.201) must be considered responsable of the violation, until we have no proof of contrary, the owner of the vehicle indicated by the competent authority.
What does this mean? Who has to prove what?
They also point out that the art of violation is ” ART.40 C.8 E ART. 146 C.2 E ART. 6 C. 4 B) E C. 14″
What does this mean? It does NOT stae anywhere what this actually mean. Any idea?
Another point is that it was not me driving the car that day, it was a friend of mine. But I guess I´m, as a renter of the car, responible anyway?
Question is if it is worth it to complain, send a letter to “Prefetto di Belluno”, ask for proof that this really happened, proof of me driving, ask for the report in Swedish etc.
Or should I just pay the (what ever it is) fine?
Al says
Hi Frank,
ART.40 C.8 – Road markings: Continuous longitudinal lines must not be crossed…
ART. 146 C.2 – Violation of road signs: Anyone who does not comply with road signs and lines […] is subjected to a fine of €41 (up to €168).
ART. 6 C.4B – Traffic Regulations outside population centers: The entity owner of the road can […] establish obligations, prohibitions and limitations on a temporary or permanent basis for each road…
ART. 6 C.14 – Anyone who violates other obligations, prohibitions and limitations contained in this Article is subjected to a fine of €84 (up to €335).
You are being fined €84 (overtaking despite the vertical “no overtaking” road sign) + €41 (crossing continuous line) + notification/procedural costs.
Art 196,1 (Solidarity principle) states that as owner of your (private) vehicle, or as holder of the rental agreement of the vehicle, you are considered to be jointly liable with the author of the traffic violation for the payment of the fine.
Except in certain cases (red light crossing, overtaking, …), Art 200 states that, whenever possible, the traffic offender should be fined on the spot.
Read February 21, 2013 at 11:43 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34959).
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Appealing to the Prefect on such grounds won’t get you anywhere.
Should you just pay? This is up to you to decide.
Best,
Al
Frank Engqvist says
Al,
I´m most greatful for your answer, now at least I know what it´s all about.
BR
/Frank
Claude Scicluna says
Hi Al,
Thanks for your feedback.
Yes both violations were sent over 1 year 2 months from date of violation.
I will be ignoring them.
Best regards,
Claude
Claude Scicluna says
Dear Al,
I would like to add the following to my previous post.
I notice that in the letter from the Prefetto is written that I need to pay a total of Eur394 but I also find a receipt from ‘BancoPosta’ which seems that I need to fill in and send the money back maybe? And the total of this receipt is Eur304???…I don’t think that we have a BancoPosta branch in Malta actually.
What can happen at the worst if I just ignore everything and I don’t pay?
Thanks and best regards,
Claude
Al says
Hi Claude,
If the fines (mailed via registered mail) were sent over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation, then they are invalid.
You may be harassed by a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
Just ignore them!
Best,
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Claude Scicluna says
Hi Al and all,
Just wish to share the following:
In 2012 I received two separate ‘Notice of Violations’ following a holiday in Italy I had in 2011.
I ignored the first two letters since they were not sent as registered mail. EMO sent a second set of letters this time registered telling me that I need to pay Eur152 on each violation.
The violations are for the same offence they say that I did twice.
I then wrote a letter of appeal to the ‘Prefetto Di Verona’ using the exact wording suggested on this website since more than 360 days had passed since the violation and the day I received the emails.
Today I received back from the Prefetto telling me that the appeal is decided against me since the 360 days start counting from the time the rental car gave the police my details and not from the date of violation. The Prefetto has now also added an extra Eur90 charges for the appeal.
I don’t know what to say and I really feel this is daylight robbery and I really feel I should still not pay. Any suggestions?
Thanks and best regards,
Claude
Joseph says
I rented a car with europcar last february and i received 2 months later 2 letters from europcar charging me each with 50 euros for traffic violations and management fees, they automatically charged them to my credit card but i also received the notice from the comune di milano for the same violations, my question here is that if europcar has already charged me that means they paid the violation fee to the comune di milano?
Vux says
Joseph,
No, Europcar charged you only for their costs which they had when they gave your data (information about you) to comune di milano.
You have to pay also fines which comune di milano sent you.
I have similar situation, rental agency took from me 50 Eur, and now I am waiting fine from comune di milano, because i didn’t yet receive anything.
Please tell me how much is each fine ? ( my fine will be for driving in limited traffic zone),
and tell me how many days past from date when Europcar took money from your credit card until you receive fines from comune di milano ??
Thank you for answer
Vux
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Vux says
Al,
After rental company informed authorities about driver datas, how many days (weeks or months) municipality need to send unregistred or registred fine to driver? Approximately, what do you think?
Regards,
Vux
Mark says
Hi Al – you helped me on Thursday last week with a letter we’d received from the Perugia police regarding entering an limited traffic zone.
Thanks for sending me the web address. This link *wasn’t* included in the letter from the police.
I’ve checked the link and it shows the fine as Euros166, as the notification date was 27 Sept 2012. However as per my post to you, their letter to me received last week was dated 28 March. Presume I am still okay to just pay the initial “within 60 days” amount?
Also the photo evidence is just a rear shot of the car, which frankly could have been taken anywhere. Would this stand up as evidence?
Happy to email you the reg# and verbale# if it would help provide more info.
Thanks again for all your help with this!
Regards
Mark
Al says
Mark,
In Italy, for privacy reasons, photographic evidence identifying the offending driver is prohibited. Such pictures are allowed only if taken by laser speed gun and if the traffic offender is pulled up by the police on the spot.
The info on the comune di Perugia website refers to the Fine Notification sent to the car rental company.
You bet! If you wish to, you are still okay to pay the initial amount. The Perugia municipality will be grateful.
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Vux says
Thank you very much !
Vux says
Hi Al,
I have read all your post and thank you and others for helping people.
I am from Serbia (outside EU), and have similar situation… Received notification from AVIS, they took 42,35 eur on my credit card and send me information “drove in restricted traffic zone in Milano” 07. February.2013.
They sent my datas (address, name…) to italian polizia municipale in Milano.
I HAVE NOT RECEIVED FINE YET FROM Polizia municipale… but i am expecting it in next few weeks.
The main question is : I have to go to France and I will go across Italy in July. Is it possible to have any problem on the Italian or some other EU country border (slovenia ?) because I didn’t pay fine yet (because I didn;t receive it), or I will not have this problem ?
Anyway, Have I 60 days for appeal (in this period they can not flagged my passport and after that maybe they flagged my passport because this fine or not?) Please ADVICE, because it is very important for me to go in July in France, and after this month I can solve this violation.
I will pay it probably, because I am forced to go in Italy every 3 months …
Thank you in advance, please send me email with response if you could
Best regards to all people with same troubles 🙂
Vux
Al says
Hi Vux,
“Is it possible to have any problem on the Italian or some other EU country border?”
“Have I 60 days for appeal (in this period they can not flagged my passport and after that maybe they flagged my passport because this fine or not?)”
Absolutely no problem at all! 🙂
Best,
Al
Vux says
Thank you very much for prompt reply.
1.I suppose that they will send me fine on address from my passport ??
2. Can you give me website where I can find photos of my car in restricted zone in Milano, as you put here for many cities ( as Piza …) ?
Vux
Al says
Vux,
1. They’ll send you the fine at the address you gave to Avis.
2. You have to wait for the fine. The letter will provide you with the website link, username and password.
Al
Vux says
Al,
Thank you very much for prompt reply.
Everything is clear.
I am sorry because I would like to ask you question more :
Do I have 60 days for appeal when I receive registered letter because I am not living in EU
and
is the rules for us (which are living outside EU) the same: if we didn’t receive nothing in period of 360 days, we can appeal that the fine can be canceled?
Thank you very much for your answers.
I wish you all the best!
Vux
Al says
Vux,
Yes,
and
Yes, the rules are the same.
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Mark says
Thank you for all your support and hard work in helping out tourists visiting Italy!
We visited Perugia in a hired car last July (31st) and I received today (6th June) a Fine Notification saying I had entered a limited traffic zone.
It’s the first piece of correspondence we’ve had on this matter, so we were surprised to have seen it. We know we were in Perugia around this time, but don’t honestly recall seeing limited traffic zones on our approach to the car park.
The letter was registered, is dated 28th March 2013, and advises that the fine is 89 euros if we pay within 60 days (unfortunately we are over this)…else it is 166 euros.
There is no vehicle make/model on the letter – it just has “car”. There is also no photographic evidence in the letter or a link to where we can view this.
We weren’t staying in Perugia, just visiting for the day.
Can you provide guidance on our rights given it has taken over 60 days to reach us from Italy, we’ve had no initial notice and also no photographic evidence.
Many thanks
Mark
Al says
Hi Mark,
You have 60 days to pay (or appeal) from the day you receive (sign for) the registered Fine Notification. June 6th + 60 days –> August 5th.
No vehicle make/model –> Insufficient, especially if all other details are correct.
No initial notice –> Only EMO (Nivi – collection agency officially mandated by a large number of Italian municipalities to notify fines to foreigners) sends an unofficial notice (“courtesy letter”). The fine you received came directly from the Perugia police.
The letter should have referred you to a website link (http://intranet.comune.perugia.it/visualmulte/default.asp) where you should be able to view photographic evidence of the offence.
Numero Targa —> Car number plate
Numero Verbale –> Fine number
Best,
Al
Mark says
Thank you for coming back to me so quickly. While it’s a steep fine for something that we are not even aware of doing, a least it’s not the full amount/post 60 day fine!
Best Regards
Mark
sasha says
Hi
I have just received a speeding fine from Firenze, 62 km in 50 km region. The date stamp on the letter is just under the 360 day limit so I believe the fine is valid.
I was not driving on the day, it was one of three people: my brother, wife or mother. If I sign the declaration and transfer the fine to the person whom we can recall was driving, they will receive the fine after the 360 limit so can then rightly refuse to accept it. Does this sound feasible?
The alternative is that I write back requesting a high resolution image so I can correctly identify the driver. What can happen if we cannot recall whom was driving and cannot identify the driver from the images?
thanks
Al says
Hi Sasha,
“Does this sound feasible?” No!
Art 196,1 (Solidarity principle) states that as owner of your (private) vehicle, or as holder of the rental agreement of the vehicle, you are considered to be jointly liable with the author of the traffic violation for the payment of the fine.
Did you receive the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” or the official “Violation of the Highway Code Report” via registered mail (detachable yellow card).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Best,
Al
sasha says
Hi
I recieved the “voilation of the highway code report” and the envelope has the detachable yellow card on it. Date on the yellow card is 2013-05-16. Date of post mark is 16/05/2013.
Date of alleged offence is 03/06/2012.
They did enclose a form to make a legal declaration of whom the driver was at the moment. I certainly know it was not me, it was another family member.
but if I transfer the fine to the actual driver they would not be receiving the “violation of highway code report” after the 360 day limit. I guess I am missing something here as you clearly stated above that is not the case. Will you please clarify how the 360 day limit applies to transferring the fine to the actual driver.
any other suggestions on how to approach this?
Al says
Sasha,
Since 1st of January 2013:
Art. 142,8 – Italian Highway Code, speeding by more than 10km/h up to 40km/h over the limit: –> Fine: from 168 to 674€ and 3 points deducted on the driver’s driving licence.
At the time of “your” speeding violation (03/06/2012), fine from 159 to 639€…
I believe you’re being fined roughly 190/200€: 159€ (minimum amount) + notifying/procedural costs.
As I’ve written in my previous post, you are liable for the payment of the fine because you signed the rental contract.
3 points will be endorsed on the driver’s driving licence, that is why you are being asked to provide the driver’s details.
Failure to provide the driver’s details and you could be subjected to an additional fine of 284€ (up to 1133€). (Art 126-bis)
But no points are endorsed on a foreign driving licence. The 3 point deduction (out of a total of 20) applies only in Italy.
If you still have the detachable yellow card, I believe you didn’t sign for the registered letter.
Read February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012).
Al
sasha says
Hi Al
thanks for clarifying that.
So it seems I have no official grounds for complaint/not to pay as official notification was issued within 360 days …(even tough I received it after 360 days 🙁 . From my understanding my options are from what I understand:
1 Pay the fine
2 Ignore the fine
3 Waste their time by writing to request calibration records of the camera in question, write back again requesting them in english and so on …..
I do not want to pay this, nor any fine in general, and typically I avoid accruing them but that is a separate issues.
What are you thoughts on doing 2 or 3?
thanks 🙂
Al says
Sasha,
3 is not an option. If you think that the speed camera may be faulty, you appeal to the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
And by requesting calibration records, you will acknowledge having received the official fine.
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Bev says
Hi Al
Would you be able to advise on ZTL fines in Sorrento? We visited last May (2012) for my brother’s wedding and inadvertently strayed into a ZTL area (Via Tasso). We didn’t realise it was a ZTL and looking at google maps image it’s not entirely clear which road is the ZTL (it’s a cross road and the sign is not on the road that is the ZTL).
Anyway, I’ve received a notice from the Sorrento Polizia which is translated very badly. However, the problem is that it doesn’t say how or who to pay the fine. Presumably I don’t send cash in an envelope?!
I’ve tried contacting the car hire company but it’s been over a week and they’re not replying to my emails. I don’t even know where to send a letter to asking for help and there’s no email address. Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks
Bev
Al says
Hi Bev,
1. When exactly did you commit this ZTL violation?
2. When was the letter dated and postmarked?
3. Was the letter sent by registered mail? Did you sign for it?
4. Really? 🙂 They do not mention a bank account number!? Any other way of paying?
5. Do they at least mention that you have 60 days to pay or lodge an appeal?
6. Do they specify that you can appeal to the Prefect of Naples or the Justice of the Peace of Sorrento?
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Best,
Al
Bev says
Hi Al
Thanks for the prompt response. In answer to your questions:
1. When exactly did you commit this ZTL violation?
12 May 2012.
2. When was the letter dated and postmarked?
There isn’t a letter from the police. All that came was a copy of the letter the hire car company sent my information to the police (that letter is dated 27/09/2012), a check list of traffic violations with a box ticked under Art. 7 cc. 13-14 stating Accedeva abusiveamente in Z.T.L and a photocopy of the notice (not dated as far as I can see) in Italian, bad English, German and French.
The envelope is post dated 6 May 2013. It arrived on 9 May but as I wasn’t in to sign for it the letter went back to the sorting office until I could pick it up on 17 May 2013.
3. Was the letter sent by registered mail? Did you sign for it?
Yes, it was registered. I signed for it on 17 May.
4. Really? They do not mention a bank account number!? Any other way of paying?
I can’t see anything. But then there is a line only in Italian with numbers and letters. Looking at it, maybe that is the bank details but it’s not obvious. It’s directly underneath the fine (Euro E. 98,09):
“Postietaliane S.p.A Filale Sorrento Cab 03400 Abi 07601 IBAN IT87 E076 0103 4000 0000 0238 808 Codice Swift BPPIITRRXXX”
5. Do they at least mention that you have 60 days to pay or lodge an appeal?
Yes, it says: “Writin 60days from the date the claim or notification of the violation the person concerned can mak an appel. It must be addressed to the Prefect of the place in Whict the offence look place and be handed in at the mentioned Municipla Police Station:The person concemed can in any case present opposition to the competent judicat autority in Sorrento.”
6. Do they specify that you can appeal to the Prefect of Naples or the Justice of the Peace of Sorrento?
Covered above.
We drove up the road to realise that it was a dead end, turned around and came back out. My dad (who is registered disabled) needed the toilet and we were looking for a public convenience. It was our first day in Sorrento and we were trying to find somewhere to stop for him. I’m quite upset that the Italian authorities have taken so long to send this and then when they do, it’s badly translated and extremely difficult to understand.
And I’m also perplexed about why we have to pay 98.09 euros when the hire car company letter to the police says the fine is 74 euros.
Again, thanks for your very fast reply!
Kind regards
Bev
Al says
Bev,
€98.09 = €74 (ZTL violation) + notifying/procedural costs.
As far as I can tell, the notice was sent out in time, 359 days after the date of the traffic violation.
If you wish to pay, the bank is Poste Italiane S.p.A. Swift/BIC code and IBAN (International Bank Account Number) are mentioned. For the payment description, give the fine number.
But who would pay after having received such a badly translated/near-incomprehensible notice? 🙂
Al
Bev says
Thanks for the advice Al. Much appreciated.
Bev
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Daniel says
Hi again Al,
Another Question after you posted “IMPORTANT UPDATE: May 2013”:
Do you think that after five years from the felony (Statute of limitations), the renting agency can decide not to rent me a car if I am listed in database?
Is this database available only in Italy, or in more countries in Europe?
Thanks,
Daniel
Al says
Hi Daniel,
EMO will send a “payment deadline reminder” and you may be contacted by a debt collection agency in Israel.
You won’t be stopped at customs for not paying a traffic fine.
I don’t see why your name should be on a car rental company’s database. They have one legal obligation and that is to provide your details to the municipal police.
This is now a matter between yourself and the municipal police/EMO.
If the car rental company had paid your fine, that would be another matter.
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Heather says
Hi Al, I’m wondering if you are able to help us. We visited Italy in June last year and visited Florence for 1 day during our trip, driving our Hertz rental car (from Bologna). Today we received 3 fines (which we had to sign for at the post office). They are all in my partners name as he was the named driver and he is an Icelandic national. We have 3 letters from the Polizi Municipale Comune Di Firenze. The first 2 are within 6 minutes of each other and they are both for the same offence ‘Circulating in a Limited Traffic Area without Authorization’ (ART. 007 C.9 E 14 In Rel.Art. 146 C.2) and the third letter is 16 minutes earlier than the first one for the limited traffic area, this one though is for ‘Circulating on a Lane Reserved for Means of Public Transportation as Indicated by Traffic Signs.’ (Prot/Access No.121198747). All of the above ‘offences’ were of course a mistake as we became lost and confused by the entire traffic system in Florence and quite honestly we didn’t even know that we were in a restricted zone or transport lane of any kind. We have just started to google map the streets and the first one has a sign only in Italian and there is no clear or specific times on it.
I am really upset that we have 3 fines for €76,00 each plus an additional €42,96 for each one for the procedural and notification costs within 6- days from the receipt of the notification. Firstly, I am confused, are we being fined €118,96 per ticket or are we being fined €76 per ticket if we pay quickly? Secondly, since we received 3 fines within 20 minutes of each other is there any way to appeal as it’s quite obvious that this was a genuine mistake and front just 1 bill instead of 3. Has this been successful in the past? If so, how would we do this as neither of us write Italian.
Any help and advice would be most appreciated.
Many thanks in advance
Heather
Al says
Hi Heather,
1 – You are being fined €118,96 per ticket.
2 – Excerpt from Art. 198,2 of the Italian Highway Code: “For limited traffic zones, the offender […] is subjected to the fine for each single violation.”
Scroll down through some of the comments.
Best,
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Luke Fuda says
Hey Al,
I have received a “payment deadline reminder” now they are telling me that if I don’t pay the fine it will double in price. The infringement was back on the 29-09-2011.
I am wondering should I just pay it to get it over or can I leave it as I am not looking to return to Italy for at least a few more years.
Luke
Al says
Hi Luke,
You may be contacted by a debt collection agency in your country of residence.
Just ignore them.
Best,
Al
Daniel says
Hi Al,
I read a lot from the comments above and i just want to make it simple:
I’ve Just received the first Unregistered Letter from EVO.
they says I’ve entered a public traffic lane – Fine: 110E.
I think there will be at least on more fine.
I will probably not return to Italy in the 5 years to come.
I am an Israeli citizen.
I am thinking of taking the “I don’t give a damn” approach – and not signing any official letter that I will receive.
Can in any case any board guard in other EU country can ever stop me for that?
Can any officer in Italy can stop me after the 5 years?
What happens after 5 years? Do they just erase it from the system?
I just want to make sure I am doing the right decision.
Thank you very very much for the helpful advices!
Best,
Daniel
Mario Ricci says
No need to avoid Italy for the next 5 years. The fines you all keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Luciano says
Hi, thanks for your great work on this matter!, I understand the 360 days limit for the italian authorities to sending out fines to foreigners, but why are you mention 210 days ?? (for italians you write it was 150 and now 60 days). I have danish citizenship, and after nearly 9 months I have not yet received any fines (just received at letter from the car-rental company telling me that they gave my data to the italian authorities because I had offended restricted traffic zone regulations in Florens).
Best regards Luciano
Al says
Hi Luciano,
Art. 201,1 (Violations Notification) of the Italian Highway Code states that:
– Italian residents have to be notified within 90 days (150 days for violations committed before August 13th 2010) from the date of the traffic violation OR AS SOON as they can be identified.
– Foreign residents have to be notified within 360 days from the date of the traffic violation.
There is no 210 day notification time limit!
Best,
Al
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Svet says
Hi Al,
First of all, thank you for the comprehensive information on this site. I’m overwhelmed by the amount of it, took me 4h to read only the most recent 2pages/responses from you. It’s amazing that you keep on updating us and responding, even after 6 years from the start of this page. It’s very, very helpful.
Can you please advice me on what to do? Here is my case:
– I live in US (as a US resident)
– I was in Florence May 7 – May 9 2012
– My rental car company was Hertz (rented with my US driving license)
– My apartment/not a hotel, was “Antica Sosta Dei Viandanti” Via Fiesolana 24, 50122 Florence. The apartment was booked via booking.com and the only proof I have is the confirmation email from booking.com (no receipts after that)
– I have not received unofficial letters warning me for the upcoming ticket
– My credit card was not charged ever (the 30E fee for my data)
– For different reason, I’ve canceled my credit card account ~2m ago 🙂
– April 27 2013, I received a notification from the post office saying there is a letter that needs signing, from Italy “NIVI Credit”.
Reading on-line, found out that most likely this is going to be a ticket from “Florence ZTL” and I ended up at your blog. Can you please advice me on what should I do? As you said in previous posts:
1. “I don’t give a damn” option – do not go to the post office and ignore everything after.
2. “Proactive” option – I can pick up the letter (sign for it) and try to email Nivi the booking.com confirmation.
3. “Wait” option – Ignore the first mail (or pick it up after May 4th), pickup any mail after. Fight it with the 360 days requirement (it should be mailed after May 4 and within 60days receiving of the official letter).
4. Or any other option you can think of and suggest.
Regards,
Svet
Al says
Hi Svet,
Thanks for reading before posting.
3. “pick it up after May 4th”. As you must have read 🙂 , “for notification purposes (360 day rule), the relevant date is the fine sending date.”
EMO/Nivi Credit won’t send another official ticket, only a “last reminder” letter. If you “fight it…”, you will acknowledge having received a letter (sent via normal mail) but not the official notification sent via registered mail.
At any rate, they’ll reply: “with the (late April) notification, we deem that you have been formally notified, even if you didn’t sign for it.”
2. You could. It might work, but no guarantee.
How many ZTL infractions? Did you always take the shortest route to reach the apartment? Or did you wander in and out of the ZTL area?
Is “Antica Sosta Dei Viandanti” like any other hotel/B&B/registered tourist accommodation? Has the owner of the apartment ever inserted a license plate into the “white list” of cars allowed to enter the restricted area?
I can’t think of any other option other than the ones you already mentioned. 🙂
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Svet says
Hi Al,
Thank you for your advice and the super fast response. I will go with your advice “option 3”: wait couple of more days before picking the mail. Then I might try to do both: “email Nivi with the confirmation from booking.com” and “send dispute” following you guidance for the 360 days rule.
– I am not sure how many ZTL infractions were done, since the mail is still in the post office. There are people with multiple tickets within couple of minutes, so helpfully that is not the case. Probably there will be 2 ZTL infractions – one time from dropping our luggage and one time picking it. Without me knowing about the ZTLs, I did not use the car in Florence at all: dropped the luggage and then drove at the parking of Piazzale Michelangelo where I left it.
– I was using GPS, and was not wandering around … was just lucky.
– “Antica Sosta Dei Viandanti” looked like private apartment rented via the site (could be company renting it or private person, not too sure about that). They did not even asked us for the license plate. Once we arrived, we’ve called them for a parking spot and they just told us that they do not have parking.
Regards,
Svet
Al says
Svet,
The notification was SENT out in time, within 360 days from the date of the alleged offence.
Whether you receive it on the 361st, 385th or 400th day is not relevant. You can’t appeal on the grounds of the 360 day rule.
But if there are only 2 ZTL infractions on your arrival/departure dates, then EMO/Nivi should cancel your fines.
Read October 2, 2012 at 6:41 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34255).
As you wrote, “email Nivi with the confirmation from booking.com” and an explanation about the loading/unloading of luggage and the Piazzale Michelangelo parking.
Al
Al says
Hi Dawn.
1. – The Violation of the Highway Code Report is the official notice. Your postman left the detachable yellow card without getting a signature. Thus, you have not been officially notified.
You will probably receive a “Last Reminder” letter via normal post (requesting the same amount), and then they sell your “debt” to a US collection agency called Cedar Financial.
Just ignore any unofficial last reminder letter you may receive and any future possible contact from Cedar Financial.
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
2. – It is an official (certified) notice from Pisa. Pisa doesn’t send unofficial notices.
Don’t pick it up or read May 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30749)
3.- Cedar Financial have no court order that would entitle them to enforce the payment of your Italian traffic fines or mess with your credit history.
Absolutely no issues with customs. Despite your reservations, you can even return to Italy. 🙂
Best,
Al
Dawn Schumaker says
Hi Al,
You are amazing plowing through all this stuff. I just spent 2 hours reading and most of the complaints are past the 360 days but mine is not. Here are the specifics, just want to make sure I have everything straight. After reading this I have no plans on giving my credit card to NIVI which I almost did.
Trip July 1st to 11th 2012 with Hertz Rental Car. So far have received 3 administration fees on credit card.
1. Received in mail (no signature) in December 2012 yellow card & Violation of the Highway Code Report from Florence on Polizia Municipale letter head with information in English on the back about Nivi Credit with payment options, & how to appeal. From reading this website for 2 hours this is not official and we should not pay off of this notice correct? Appeals should only be done off of the certified signed notification as well? This is already past 60 days but want to make sure I get it straight when & if the official one comes, hopefully past the 360 days.
2. Recently received from our post office a notice of a certified letter waiting for us at the Post Office something from Pisa (so nothing to do with the Florence unofficial notice). I’m assuming this is an official notice and this is what we should pay from???? It is within the 360 days. Haven’t picked it up yet not sure if we should. Any advice?
3. Could some one please elaborate on how often this gets transferred to the United States against your credit? And has anyone had issues with their US Passport going to other countries (other than Italy) because of nonpaid traffic tickets in Italy?
Thanks for all your help and apologize in advance if I missed answers to these questions. There are no plans to go back before 5 years and after this craziness I doubt if we will ever go back. We did a lot of research before we went & mapped out the route to follow & avoid the restricted areas which are not clearly marked at all and still had issues. My recommendation to anyone – save a lot of money so you can stay in town and walk or find another country to visit! We spent close to 5G and stayed in Scandicci not close to public transportation and had to rent a car. It’s sad we are now faced with paying all of these traffic fines when we were really careful of where we were driving.
Sarah says
Has anyone out there NOT paid the traffic ticket? If so, what has happened afterwards…anything?
Mario Ricci says
Good news! The fines you keep getting are basically a “scarecrow” operation against the faint-hearted which produces a positive result in about 50% of what are nothing more than requests to pay by cash-strapped city councils. For Italian speakers the n-th confirmation to this is yesterday’s article on “Il Tirreno”: “Parcheggia dove vuoi, se sei straniero la multa non conta” (Park where you please, if you’re not Italian the fines have no value). Here is the link: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/regione/2013/09/15/news/parcheggia-dove-vuoi-se-sei-straniero-la-multa-non-conta-1.7751027 Scrap all the bloody paperwork. Not a chance of any criminal procedures since these are only administrative (civil law) violations. Cheers Mario Ricci – Viareggio
Bee says
Thanks for all the helpful comments on this Forum. Al and others I admire your stamina in continuing to respond after all this time.
I’m hoping for advice but perhaps this note will just confirm that Pisa authorities have got their act together finally!
i live in the UK and it seems I stupidly parked in a Pisa TZV [P.za Toniolo Giuseppe]in my Rental car (2hours after getting off a plane) on 26 June 2012. Got a charge on my credit card which alerted me that they had provided details to authorities.
No letters arrived until today when I got an “Infringements of the Italian Highway Code” yellow card on back wasn’t asked to sign for it and it arrived through my letterbox at 21:00.
Anyway it is in Italian on the front and English on the back (same text). They are looking for 121 Euros rising to 198 Euros if not paid within 60 days
Its less than 360 days since the “infrazione” but is over 210 days (274 days) that is mentioned in earlier posts.
Have I any grounds for Appeal based on being over 210 days (yet it is <360days)?
Do I have any grounds for appeal in that they state myself as being "owner" of the vehicle, yet it is a rental car?
Do I just accept that they have refined their methods and have now become more efficient in sending out their notices? If so I'll pay the fine.
Ta
Bee
Bee says
Correction: I didn’t park I merely entered into an area. Probably took a wrong turning trying to enter/exit the city. Photo is very dark and shows nothing other than the rear of a car. States the location as Piazza Guiseppe Toniolo which is South of the river and seems to be labelled as the Centro Storico Sud. Camera seems to be on a post less than 10m after the signage with no way out if you don’t want to impede a following car.
Link to Google Streetview here.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=plaza+toniolo+guiseppe,+pisa,+italy&hl=en&ll=43.711518,10.405582&spn=0.00476,0.00817&sll=43.88071,10.233599&sspn=0.427615,1.045761&t=h&hnear=Piazza+Giuseppe+Toniolo,+Pisa,+Toscana,+Italy&z=18&layer=c&cbll=43.711343,10.405518&panoid=nWr5MXwPvL7G1y5kG10c3Q&cbp=12,13.9,,0,0
Al says
Hi Bee,
The notification time limit for foreigners is 360 days from the date of infraction.
(There is no 210 day notification time limit.)
You haven’t been formally notified, SEPI Pisa has no proof that you ever received the official notice. Will they send another one? Maybe. Probably not.
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Best,
Al
tom c says
I live in the United States and have received a “Notice of Payment” from Nivi Credit. The letter appears to be on Corpo di Polizia Roma Capitale stationary. Based on the details below, should I wait for the certified letter, the 360 days will be up in 19 days?
It states “Notice of Payment Contravention of the Italian Highway Code”…was driving in a limited traffic area without authorization.
It states on the back that payment must be made within 20 days to the Municipality. Oddly there is an officers signature but we were never stopped by an officer. We only drove into rome to the Marriott on Via Veneto, which is right near where the address on the letter is. We literally only had a vehicle in Rome for minutes until we surrendered it to the hotel parking garage, and returned it the next morning.
It states at the end that “The present notice is not a Notification of violation, therefore it allows the recipient to make the payment due in amicable circumstances.
Regards, Tom
Al says
Hi Tom,
The “Notice of Payment” is a “courtesy letter” sent via normal post by the collection agency EMO (Nivi Credit), which is mandated by the Rome authorities to notify fines to foreigners.
The appeal authorities (Prefect or Justice of the Peace) are not mentioned, you can’t lodge an appeal.
You should write an email to the EMO (infoemo-en@nivi.it) and explain that you entered the ZTL in order to check in and that the hotel failed to register the licence plate of your vehicle with the Municipal Police. Provide documentary proof of the booking (invoice or declaration from the hotel). Contact hotel Marriott, if necessary.
The EMO/Municipal Police of Rome should then cancel your fine.
If not, you should lodge an appeal with the Prefect of Rome within 60 days from the date of receipt of the official notification (certified letter).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Copy/paste the appeal template and send your registered letter with proof of receipt to:
Al Prefetto di Roma
Prefettura di Roma
via IV Novembre 119/A
00187 Roma
Read November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Best,
Al
Tom c says
Hi Al,
I have received a letter with the yellow envelpe attached to the back. It says recommande on the front.
It is addressed from
NCDS
C/O FIRENZE CMP
50100 Firenze italia
It states a date of ascertainment of 9/4/2012 but the infraction was 4/24/2012. On the back it states the clock starts at the date of ascertainment. I am understanding that is not true for non residents.
Just making sure I understand.
Is it too late to send the email to EMO? I cant remember if I did that but this letter starts with “It was not possible to contest the following violation immediately inasmuch as the violation was observed using approved video control system.
Thank you, Tom
tom
Stephen says
Gentlemen,
Many Thanks and Commendations for all the work you do here.
My problem: Two fines have come though my door in the last month. It was a hire car, three drivers, and I was only driving for some of these fines.
Problem One: This arrived with the official yellow slip of paper, indicating it is probably the fine itself. On the 30th January 2012 a speeding infringement occurred and they charged me 189 Euros. They sent me the letter telling me this on the 7th February 2013, a date clearly over the 360 time limit. I have sixty days (ending April 14th) to pay or they increase the fine to 349 Euros. It also requests that if I wish to appeal it must be sent in Italian, a clear infraction of the human rights law mentioned above. Also three points on my licence, do they have power to enforce this. Any advice or thoughts would be much appreciated.
Problem Two: This one came with no yellow slip but it only gave me twenty days to pay (only have four days left). This is for driving through the Rome ZTL on the 22nd March 2012 and is or 108 Euros. Again, advice much appreciated.
Many Thanks,
Stephen
Al says
Hi Stephen,
Solution One: Copy/paste the appeal template and send the appeal letter (registered with proof of receipt) to the Prefect.
Read closely :
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Points on your licence?
Read January 24, 2011 at 8:42 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29876).
Solution Two: This one is the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” sent by regular mail.
Wait for the official fine, sent via registered mail (yellow slip), and appeal.
Best,
Al
Stephen says
Hi Al,
Many Thanks for highlighting those articles.
I have used the appeals letter and added in all the relevant information.
One final thing from you though please:
Enclose with the letter, not only a readable copy of the formal notification, but also Decision 198/1996” of the Italian Constitutional Court with the relevant passages highlighted.
Page 3: “Come si nota dal raffronto […] siano stati identificati successivamente.”
Page 4: “si consentirebbe una protrazione […] ai residenti all’estero;”
Write: “Allega: fotocopia del verbale notificato, sentenza Corte Costituzionale 10-17 giugno 1996, n. 198.”
I cant make head or tails of this. Why am I including this? What is it saying??
Thanks,
Stephen
Al says
Stephen,
Read “Important April 6th 2010 UPDATE” near the top of the page.
Read February 5, 2011 at 9:33 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30019).
Read March 21, 2012 at 5:24 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-33256).
Al
Sofia says
Hi Al,
Thanks for your last reply.
I looked up the article in Art. 201,1 Codice della Strada and it does say 360 days from ‘accertamento’ – what’s that? Is it when they ascertain who is driving?
Sofia
Al says
Sofia,
NO!!!
I thought you spoke a little Italian.
The word “ascertainment” in Art. 201,1 ALWAYS refers to the ascertainment of the traffic violation (by means of a traffic camera, speed radar, …on the day it was committed!).
The concept of “subsequent identification” applies only to Italian residents!
And Sofia, if you reply, please click on the green “Reply” button just below this message.
Al
Sofia says
Yes, sir! 🙂
In my defence, even my Italian friend said she found this ambiguous. (but she also said Italians usually ignore these fines!!)
Ok, I think I’m officially ‘safe’, being on the right side of the 360 days. And having driven numerous times in Veneto since the incident in question one would expect something to have been said, if it was going to be said, by now….
Keep up the stirling work, Al. The rest of the site is good stuff, too. Refreshing to see Italy from a ‘real life’ perspective. No place is perfect (and if it is where you are, don’t leave!) – despite their underhand tactics in some arenas, I do still love bella Italia ….
Grazie mille,
Sofia
Alex says
Thanks to all great contributors on this forum… I had a couple of fines for driving in bus lane (someone else driving at the time) and as far as I remember, there were no signs on the road as I am a very cautious driver..
Anyway I chose to ignore the fines (they never took my signature on delivery so can claim never received them), I have today entered Italy for work purpose and there was no stoppage at the airport what so ever. So anyone who has the concern that they’d be arrested entering Italy in case of non-payment of fines should rest assured that it does not happen, at least I faced no issues as such..
Now the arrest part being out of the way, I will wait and see if NIVI hands over the fine to a UK debt collection agency… Will come back with my experience on that as well when it happens…
Sarah says
How much time has passed since you received the fines?
Jonathan says
Hi, AI and Alex,
First of all well done on the website and you dedication. Very much appreciated.
I am from Malta and recieved 2 fines, 2 minutes, apart for entering in a restricted Zone in Firenze 2 Years ago.
The thing is i had to enter to Firenze to return the car (which i rented from Bologna) to the rental agency which was in the restricted zone. Apperently Sixt told me to return the car to an address in a restricted area in Firenze. I am assuming this is the car rental agency’s fault not mine.
Moreover in the fine it states that the 360 days start, from the day of identification. which they claim was in May of 2012 (less than 360 days). This is a lie as i was charged by Sixt 72 euros in November 2011 (more than 360 days) for providing identification to the police. I have also an email from Sixt telling me they charged me 72 euros for the 2 fines as Admin fees.
I have read the comments and will send an appeal letter on >360 days from the day of infraction.
I have 3 questions though:
1) Can the appeal be rejected since in the fine it states that 360 days count from the day of identification (even if they moved the date on purpose)?
2) Should i include in the appeal, that i was returning the car in Firenze, and it is the agency’s fault?
3) Should i include that Sixt gave the details to the police back in November 2011 and not in May 2012 as they are stating ( I have the bank transaction charging me 72 euros in Nov from Sixt and also an email from Sixt telling me that the charge is for 2 fines which they have no details of)
Thanks for all your help, I will send the letter this Wed because my 60 days will soon expire :S
Al says
Hi Jonathan,
Your message was posted only today (the 27th).
Rental agencies, always so careful to warn their customers about restricted zones! 🙂
Right! Charged by Sixt in November 2011, conveniently identified only in May 2012!
Your case seems to confirm the impression I had. The Police/EMO do lie occasionally (frequently?) about the real date of identification.
(It’s very unlikely that the 72€ charge was for two other fines that you never received).
1) The Prefect’s underling can do what the hell he wants. He doesn’t even have to give you a reason for rejecting your appeal.
2) You could, but they won’t give a damn about that.
3) Again you could but… It is unfortunate that Sixt couldn’t provide you with the details of the fines they received.
And your appeal is based on >360 days from the day of infraction.
Read September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
But I would send an email to EMO (infoemo-en@nivi.it) asking them in strong terms how come was I charged by Sixt in November 2011 if I was identified only in May 2012.
I’d like to know what they have to say about that!
Naturally, I would never ever pay.
Best,
Al
Keith says
Al,
Once again, Thank you so much! I’ll keep you ‘Posted’ 😉
Kindest Regards,
Keith
Al says
Keith,
I don’t know if you have noticed, but the tracking on the Poste Italiane website shows that, your letter with reference RI498390428GB, was delivered to the recipient on the 13th of March.
http://www.poste.it/online/dovequando/home.do
You can even stamp or download/save (pdf) the “delivery outcome”.
Al
Sofia says
Hi Al,
Thank you for your help – much appreciated!
I wrote my appeal letter in Italian (grammatically-bad Italian, but clearly understandable) with an English version, too. It was a nice friendly appeal letter (!) stating that it wasn’t clear that I shouldn’t enter this zone, that when I saw the sign on turning into the ZTL I turned round immediately and left the zone and that it was 373 days after the infraction that I received the fine – I didn’t know then about the laws you mentioned on this site about the 360 days – I just suspected that they’d have some sort of time limit, and I took a punt that it would be a year of receipt (I was almost right!) of the fine. I also said that for such a small and genuine mistake 99 Eur was, in my opinion, way too much. I was hoping they’d reduce it, as they probably would in the Uk, and then I’d have paid it. BUT I didn’t send it registered mail as I didn’t know I had to – just got a receipt of postage.
The reply this week was from the Prefect, yes. They did not give any reason – just stated that your worship (me) must now pay 186 Eur. That’s it. And that it must be through the bank IBAN blah blah blah…. I got my Italian friend to read it too. There’s no reason given. I have 60 days to appeal.
Could you please send me the link which references the 360 days law – the thread on the site is now so long that I couldn’t easily find the concrete 360 law that you quote in a lot of other replies.
I will probably have to drive in Veneto again quite soon – I work there fairly often, although for a British company, so when I go it’s as a tourist in their eyes. Will I be on some kind of ‘black list’? Do you know if they inform other car hire companies of people who have penalties i.e. am I likely to be ‘flagged’ if I’m hiring a car from a different company to the one I was using when I was fined? I have driven there already several times in the 18 months, and also hired a car, and … nothing.
Would you still advise me to now forget it, or should I write to someone to explain why I don’t intend to pay? Or just ignore any more threatening letters?
Do you know if the Italian authorities have ever followed through in the Uk and if so, how?
I’ve also just moved house and am in the process of changing my licence address so any more letters would go to my old address and then they’ll be returned to sender.
Lastly, I think this issue is distressing for a lot of people and very corrupt from the Italian side – I love their country, but they must not use traps for innocent tourists to attempt to prop up their struggling economy. I was shocked to read about people’s multiple fines in Tuscany. It’s a bad attitude for a beautiful place to have. Who do you suggest I write to to register this, so that hopefully it reaches the public eye and something is done in the future? My MEP? Do you have any tips for doing this? Which department to write to, etc?
I’d like to say that it was immensely reassuring and helpful to find your site – why do you take the time to do this for people? I’m so glad you do, though, and THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help and advice. I’m just one grateful motorist in a long, long list…..
Best,
Sofia
Al says
Hi Sofia,
Thanks!
How very nice of Your Worship to write a nice friendly appeal letter!
I’m not surprised it was rejected.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Art. 201,1 Codice della Strada – Notificazione delle violazioni.
(http://www.altalex.com/index.php?idnot=34127#titolo).
“Will I be on some kind of ‘black list’?…”
Once the car hire company has provided your details to the police, it’s a matter between you (holder of the rental agreement) and the authorities. The car hire company couldn’t care less if you appeal, pay your fine or not. As for the police informing car hire companies… Never heard of it. 🙂
“Do you know if the Italian authorities have ever followed through in the Uk”
Not to my knowledge.
Your fine is invalid (> 360 days). I wouldn’t waste my time writing to anyone.
People have already complained but Italian municipalities need to generate as much revenue as possible. And not only from tourists.
At first, I was motivated by the fact that foreign traffic offenders are being blatantly lied to about the 360 day notification time limit, the bad ZTL signposting (this is becoming less and less true, probably) and the multiple ZTL fines for violations just a few minutes apart (although legitimate – see Art. 198,2 Codice della Strada).
And then… things got a little bit out of hand. 🙂
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Kevin O'Rourke says
Thanks for the great advice, I do a lot of travelling in Italy and it can be a nightmare
KeithForster says
Dear Al,
Following your excelent response, I have appealed aginst my Rome Fine and have posted the letter ISF Air Letter within the 60 Days.
My prblem now is that the letter seems to have been stuck in a Milan sorting office for two weeks! See below:
Your item, posted on 05/03/13 with reference RI498390428GB has arrived in MILAN ITALY and is being processed for delivery.
Can I just ask, is it the date posted in the UK? or the date Received by Italian Prefect in Rome that counts?
Has anyone else had experience of long postal delays? Apparently, Italy do not opperate Fully Tracked’ Air sure so this was my only option, other than couriering it. My 60 Days will expire on 24th March!
Many Thanks.
Keith
Al says
Keith,
I believe the tracking on the Royal Mail website stops at the Milan sorting office.
Does it update when the letter has reached its final destination? I don’t know.
Unfortunately, the Poste Italiane have just modified their tracking webpage (http://www.poste.it/online/dovequando/home.do) and inserting British tracking reference numbers doesn’t seem to be working anymore.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34973).
I suppose your letter is “somewhere” in Rome.
“Can I just ask, is it the date posted in the UK?” Of course! The sending date!
Because everybody knows that the postal service in Italy sucks!
“Has anyone else had experience of long postal delays?” In Italy? 😀
Al
Sofia says
Very familiar story, but your oh-so-useful site has given me hope! 🙂
Facts: I’m British, living in Uk. I received a traffic penalty for driving in ‘zona a traffico limitato’ in Mestre, Veneto.
Offence occurred 3 Sept 2011. Penalty was sent postmarked 31 Aug 2012 = 362 days! I received it on 7 Sept 2012. Fine was 99 Eur.
I appealed by letter (my own) to the Prefect of Venice. Sent this 12 Sept 2012. Had another penalty notice yesterday, 19 March 2013 – they have doubled my fine to 186 Eur!
But, since it was more than 360 days AND the road signage was not clear – I have since been back and checked – you cannot see the ‘limited access’ sign until you turn, otherwise I wouldn’t have done so – can I afford to ignore this? Or should I, in your opinion, write again with reasons why I shouldn’t pay, quoting the 360 days/bad signage? If so, who to?
I often go to Italy for work and quite often have to rent a car – although I’ll never do so with the same company again cos they were rubbish anyway. So I don’t want to be on their ‘wanted’ list as I’ll need to go there again soon!
I appreciate this is the millionth time you’ve answered a similar question – massively thankful in advance to have someone who knows what they’re talking about!
Sofia
Al says
Hi Sofia,
On what grounds did you appeal?
Did you write your letter in Italian?
The penalty notice you received on the 19th of March is the reply from the Prefect, right?
What reasons were given for rejecting your appeal? Copy the text in Italian.
You can appeal the Prefect’s decision to the Justice of the Peace within 60 days of receiving the Prefect’s letter.
But as I’ve already written: “What are we expected to do from abroad? Go through the entire legal process to be vindicated in such a simple matter?”
Your fine was invalid. It was sent 363 days after the infraction date.
I would let the whole matter drop! Enough is enough!
And do return to Italy whenever you wish.
To be really, really safe, I would avoid driving in the Venezia Province (and even then!).
Best,
Al
Norwegian says
Well, I’ll go stand in line with all the other people here accused of driving in some limited traffic area in Siena. In 2011 I had a nice stay in Italy which included a parking ticket paid via Avis, as in: Avis contacted me informing that the fine would be charged on my credit card. Annoying, but not uncommon with 7 days in a rental car in a foreign country.
Some time later i received the much discussed emo “notification of notification” for driving in a limited traffic area. My first reaction was: “Didn’t I pay Avis for the fine already?”, Then: “No, this is something else.”, wait: “It came by regular mail, and it wants me to go to an unknown web page and enter my credit card information. Smells fishy.” Needless to say; I thrashed it. Nigerian, now Italian, scam my —!
Days go by : 2012 I receive a notification from the post office saying there is a letter that needs signing, from Italy. Recognizing the address I ignore it.
More days go by. 2013 I get a “payment deadline remainder” by regular mail from emo.nivi.it, claiming I where notified the xx-yy-2012, and yada-yada, pay within 60 days or we double.
This has to be a new low on emo’s part:
* The notification date above is 483 days after the infraction date, well over the required 360 days, not to mention the 210 days.
* They have the nerve to cite a date which I know is not valid in court, since I never signed and picked up the notification letter.
* They have not proved anything, other than stating “the vehicle circulated in limited area.”. At least In Norway it is necessary to provide a picture showing the driver of the car at the time of offense for it to be valid.
* They really are out of bounds, as in outside of Italian borders, stalking a foreign citizen with no legal agreement with the citizens nation.
This is apart from the fact that emo.nivi.it looks like a 10 year olds first html school-project, and within 5 minutes shows to be incoherent at best. How could anyone ever willfully enter their credit card information on a dodgy web page like this?! Or! Send money to a random IBAN?
If I ever find the need to become a criminal I’ll set up an IBAN and start sending petty fines to random people. I bet I’d make, In Dr.Evils voice: “One million dollars!” ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw )
Anyway, Al, If your still reading this: Should I fill out your excellent appeal form, or just let it rest. The 60 day period is not over anytime soon.
Al says
Hi Norwegian,
I believe the “parking ticket paid via Avis” was in fact the administrative fee (€35 flat rate + VAT) pocketed by Avis for passing your contact details onto the Police.
As you know, your fine is invalid. It was sent 483 days (> 360) after the infraction date.
(There is no 210 day notification time limit.)
The 60 day appeal period is over. You could have appealed within 60 days from the day of receipt of the 2012 (registered mail) official notification.
The “payment deadline reminder” is an unofficial “threatening” letter aimed at bullying you into paying the original amount within 60 days. You can not appeal.
So,… just let it rest! 🙂
Best,
Al
Sebastian Whipple says
Hi Al,
Firstly congratulations on a great site and spending so much time helping everyone with this issue, I’m afraid I’ve discovered this site a little late but hope you can still help me. I live in England and we went on a family holiday to Lucca in July 2011. I have received 3 fines of €122.96 for entering a ZTL in Lucca on 16th, 19th and 21st of July 2011. The date of ascertainment was 10th Nov 2011 and the date the official fine was sent by registered mail was 31st of Oct2012 (well over a year after the infraction).
I just saw recently your comments about the fine having to be recieved 360 from the date of infraction and so I rang EMO and they were insistent that it was from the date of ascertainment. It has now been well over 60 days since we received the official fine and we haven’t paid, is it now too late to send the appeal?
We have received a Payment Deadline letter for all 3 fines and they have said on the phone they will double the fine after 60 days but when I log on to the emo.nivi website the amount is still the same. Do they actually double the amount?
Also I couldn’t see any comments on here where people have actually had debt collectors come around, do you know of anyone this has happened to?
I would love to return to Italy at some point as I love the country but simply cannot afford to pay these fines. If I wait 5 years will they definitely be forgotten?
Thanks in advance for you’re help.
Al says
Hi Sebastian,
Yes, it’s too late to send the appeal. It would be declared inadmissible.
Although EMO keeps on misleading foreign traffic offenders, the official fine (recorded mail) has to be SENT 360 days from the date of infraction.
Although the amount should already have been doubled, the Payment Deadline (Last Reminder) letter is EMO’s last attempt to get you to pay the original amount (any amount). They would be overjoyed if you paid the “reduced” amount.
The next step could be a debt collector contacting you, but I’ve never heard of it happening in England. If that happens, just ignore them.
The statute of limitations (time limit for Italian authorities to collect fines) is 5 years from the date of the offence BUT gets interrupted by any official act relevant to the fine.
In your case, 31st of October 2012 + 5 years.
Do not pay these fines, as you know they are invalid.
Do return to “beautiful” Italy before the 5 years expire, you won’t get arrested at customs.
Best,
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Sebastian Whipple says
Thanks for the speedy response, just what I wanted to hear. I’ll be sure to post up on here if anything does actually come of my non payment. Thanks
walkerny says
Had a great visit to Italy, received an ‘infraction’ notice 9 months later (today). No evidence, no photograph. Nothing. No idea what “zone” I was in and should not have been. No policeman stopped me at any time.
I will simply not pay it and choose France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal…for my next trip. It is a big world, I choose not to deal with THIEVES, and I will send a kind note to the ministry of culture and tourism explaining why Italy is off my list.
I did not realize Italy was flush with cash and could afford to cause tourists to choose other locations.
Dylan says
Dear All,
First of all, what a great thread with lots of interesting information. I’m just trying to digest it all.
I have a problem and am hoping for some advice from those of you in the know. I received a recorded letter (which I signed for before knowing what it was) from the Italian Police in late October 2012 demanding payment for an alleged speeding offence. The date of the offence shown in the letter was 25th March 2012. However, I was not in Italy on that date but instead was there a month earlier (25th February 2012).
Immediately I realised the error and presumed that the rental car company had simply passed my details onto the police by mistake instead of the actual person responsible for the car on the date of the offence. I naturally presumed that the police were unlikely to get the date of an offence wrong. I contacted the rental car company and stated that they needed to resolve the problem as it was likely to have been an error on their part and that they should arrange for my name to be cleared from any association with the alleged offence. The rental car company (a global brand) have been dragging their heels on this, and four and a half months later they still haven’t resolved it.
I did not follow the 60 day appeal process described in the police letter as I naturally felt that this error was not mine to get involved in if it could not possibly be related to me (I put the onus on the rental car company to sort it out). Out of curiosity, I did attempt to log on to the police website named in the letter, to check the photograph of the vehicle taken at the time of the offence. But no password was given in the letter and so I could not access anything.
I recently sent a formal ultimatum letter to the General Manager of the rental car company demanding resolution to the matter. What I have received instead are two emails from two different employees explaining that they are still looking into the matter and awaiting a response from the General Manager in Italy.
However, I have just received a second letter from the Italian Police (not recorded post and therefore no signature required) with the same demand but with the date of the offence changed to 25th February 2012 – the date that I WAS in Italy. A covering letter was included apologising for the mistake in the date on the original demand. This covering letter has no letterhead, no date, no signature and no personal salutation – just ‘Dear Sir’.
My initial thoughts are that there seems to be a strange coincidence in the timing of my formal demand to the rental car company and the arrival of this second letter. I am not convinced by the authenticity of the covering letter (possibly a fake sent by the rental car company?). I also find it disturbing that the police could make a mistake in the date of an offence. I am still unable to view photographic evidence of the offence despite a website address being provided again on the second letter (again without a password included).
I am not prepared to ignore this matter as I typically travel to Italy at least once a year and don’t wish to experience problems on my next visit (I have already cancelled one vacation at Christmas because this issue was still unresolved!).
So can anybody advise me on how to play this please? As I see it I have several options:
(a) I will write to the police directly and ask them to provide photographic evidence of the offence. If there is a photo and it is clearly me in the car, then I know that the police genuinely got the date wrong on the first letter.
(b) If the rental car company continue to be evasive and I am forced to resolve this alone, then naturally the fact that the police got the date wrong initially should (if it was in the UK) be grounds to dismiss the allegation. The admission of their error in the covering letter with the second demand should be good enough. I then need to appeal the demand.
(c) However, if I appeal to the Prefect (as suggested in the demand letter) and they do not accept my challenge of the police having made a mistake, then I risk having the £150 fine doubled. I cannot afford that risk.
(d) If, as suggested early in this thread, I submit a case to a Justice of the Peace then I have a better chance of success, but this is going to cost me far more than the fine itself. Is it really worth it?
(e) If I pay the fine (although I certainly do not accept any liability for the alleged offence as I still don’t believe it was me), then at least I can continue to travel to Italy without problems, but I’ll be £150 short in the pocket (and very annoyed too).
(f) I am quite prepared to have this case investigated by a fraud officer, MEP, newspapers, etc, and if it transpires that it is a scam either by the rental car company or the police (or both together!) then hopefully some good will come from it – but that won’t resolve the issue of me being able to get back to Italy anytime soon, unless I make a payment now under duress (but how do I do that with a bank transfer?) and kick up a fuss later.
Please help.
Dylan.
Al says
Hi Dylan,
There was no need to cancel your Christmas vacation.
You don’t mention who sent you the letters. Was it EMO (Nivi credit), …?
What probably happened is that:
– The Police sent the fine (written in Italian) to the rental agency (with the right date: 25th of February),
– The rental agency passed your contact details onto the Police,
– The Police then sent you the fine (written in English – with the wrong date: 25th of March),
– You complained to the car rental company,
(You could have asked for a copy of the fine (written in Italian) they received.)
– The car rental company “warned” the Police that you had received a fine with a wrong date of the offence,
– You finally received from the Police a letter with the right date: 25th of February. Including that apologetic covering letter. Not only do they get the date wrong, but they also forget to provide a password in order to check the photograph. 🙂
I believe that the police genuinely got the date wrong on the first letter and that it was you speeding.
If you had a password, you’d be able to see a picture of the back of your rental car with the license plate. In Italy, for privacy reasons, photographic evidence identifying the offending driver is prohibited. Such pictures are allowed only if taken by laser speed gun and if the traffic offender is pulled up by the police on the spot.
After having received the recorded letter, I would have waited 59 days before sending an appeal letter to the Prefect justifying that I was not in Italy on the 25th of March.
The Police could never have sent you a second recorded letter in time.
In late October 2012 you were officially notified of an offence which you couldn’t have committed, but you didn’t appeal.
The second (mid-March) letter should also have been sent recorded delivery. You’re not officially notified of the offence you did commit on the 25th of February.
I would disregard all your options.
Either you appeal to the Prefect on the basis of that second letter only, which was sent over 360 days after the date of the offence, or you just ignore the whole matter.
I would just forget about it. “Both” fines are invalid.
Ignore any unofficial last reminder letter you may receive and any future possible contact from a debt collection agency.
Read February 5, 2011 at 10:55 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30020).
And you won’t experience any problems when you travel to Italy.
Best,
Al
P.S./ To pay and kick up a fuss later? They tremble at the idea of what could happen. 😀
Dylan says
Hello Al,
Thanks for your reply. Both of the letters I received have come directly from the Police as said previously. The second one (with the amended date of the offence and not sent by registered post) was received over 360 days after the alleged (amended) date of offence – however, according to details given towards the top of this thread, the 360 day rule can also begin from the date that the driver was identified. From the information provided by the car rental company, my identification was made in April 2012, therefore this letter IS within the 360 period. But, with the letter not having been sent registered I could, as you suggest, ignore it.
Unfortunately, whilst researching the issue of travelling to Italy with outstanding fines from that country on my record, several sources have stated the likelihood that this would be flagged at border control and I would be forced to pay. This in fact occurred to my father-in-law some years ago who was denied leaving the country until his speeding fine was met! I have no intention whatsoever of putting myself and my family through such an experience and having vacations spoilt by taking any risk through failing to pay up. But on principle I should not have to pay an incorrect allegation if I felt at that time that I was not in the wrong – hence the cancellation of my Christmas vacation after the car rental company failed to act before my departure. This sentiment still applies if indeed the Police had made an error on their notice – their mistake, their loss.
Requesting other proof (such as a photo of the incident) seems pointless if it won’t even identify me in the vehicle. It seems that this system is designed purely to entrap people into paying these fines as the alternatives have risks of being far more costly (unless you are prepared to avoid Italy for the next several years – which I am not).
I was beginning to come round to the idea of just paying the fine to avoid problems on my next vacation, particularly to avoid a far greater fine later if this one was ignored. But having read the February 5th 2011 post you provided the link to (thank you), I may now reconsider, although I will have to prepare my case should I get stopped and questioned at border control.
Still more options to look at….
Dylan.
Al says
Dylan,
“360 day rule can also begin from the date that the driver was identified”
No! The concept of “subsequent identification” applies only to Italian residents!
For foreigners it is 360 days full stop!
At the time of your Christmas vacation, the 60 day appeal period was still running…
Al
keithforster says
Dear Al,
Thank you so much for the advise re my Fine. I’ve done what you suggested and Registered my appeal.
I’ll let you know if I ever hear anything again!
Great site and thanks for the response.
Kindest Regards,
Keith.
Mike says
Hi Al & All
I received a post marked letter dated 1-09-13 for a violation committed in Siena for a Limited Traffic Area without Authorization. (The letter was not signed for and some sort of yellow Card in Italian- I guess registered). The date of the offense was 10-12-11 while driving a rental car from Eurocar and date of ascertainment was 1-19-12. The Siena Municipale has turned this over to Nivi Credit and the fine is 132.25 Euro. If not paid in 60 days or 3-09-13 the fine will increase to 208.25 euro + fees and interest cost excluded. I have not responded and don’t think that I will (or should I?). The receipt of this letter is 434
days after the offense. So is Nivi going to hand it over to Cedar Fiancial here in the US to try and collect, where I am sure I will be harassed and threatened to no end. And will the Rental Car Company try and charge my credit card which I cancelled some time ago?
It also says in the letter that I can pay the fine by credit card through http://www.emo.nivi.it Do I have any leg to stand on and what happens if I don’t pay. I have no plans on returning to Italy anytime soon.
Mike
Al says
Hi Mike,
“some sort of yellow Card in Italian- I guess registered”.
You guessed right!
10-12-11 –> 1-09-13 –> 455 days –> > 360 days after the date of the offence.
“If not paid in 60 days” –> or Date of receipt + 60 days……..
“The receipt of this letter is 434 days after the offense.” –> ???
“is Nivi going to hand it over to Cedar Financial” –> Probably.
“will the Rental Car Company try and charge my credit card” –> No.
Your fine is invalid. If you decide to appeal, send the appeal letter to:
Al Prefetto di Siena
Prefettura di Siena
Piazza Duomo 9
53100 Siena
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Read November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124).
Best,
Al
Alex says
Hi Everyone
I am from Canada and I was driving my car which I picked up from factory in Germany around Europe in July 2012 and now in Feb 2013 I got a ticket from Pisa for circulating in restricted area. I have no plan to go to Italy ever again. Can they send collection agencies to my door? Thanks
Al says
Hi Alex,
Read February 20, 2013 at 5:25 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34952).
Best,
Al
Nick says
Al
Well, I sent the appeal and also emailed EMO to inform them of the appeal. Today I received an email from them:
Dear Mr Scott,
in order to keep your dossiers updated, please be so kind to send us via email a copy of the registered mail sent to the Prefect of Lucca.
We will also inform the Police, accordingly.
Thank you for your cooperation.
The appeal was sent on 7th Feb by Royal Mail International Signed For. The tracking as of today is showing:
Your item, posted on 07/02/13 with reference RU100334562GB has arrived in MILAN ITALY and is being processed for delivery.
It’s been showing this since the 11th and I’m wondering if this will ever be delivered.
Do you think I should reply to EMO with all the copies and also the tracking number for the letter?
Thanks again for this invaluable site.
Nick
Al says
Nick,
The tracking on the Poste Italiane website shows:
Spedizione RU100334562GB con data 07/02/2013:
Accettato dal centro postale di MILANO CSI WINDOWS in data 09-FEB-2013
Consegnato allo sportello del centro postale di LU PIAGGIA CDM in data 15-FEB-2013
Accepted by the Milan mail centre…
Delivered to the counter of the mail centre in via Di Piaggia, Lucca…
http://www.poste.it/online/dovequando/start.do?subaction=raccomandata
“Thank you for your cooperation”!!!
Seeing that I’m not particularly fond of the EMO, I would reply something like, “Well, given that up to now, you have demonstrated such excellent coordination with the Italian Police and the Italian Prefectures, may I be so bold as to suggest that you ask the Prefecture of Lucca for the registered letter. Fondest regards…”
But that’s only me! At times, I can be very uncooperative.
However, if you wish to reply, send them only the appeal letter. No need to send the fines, everything is mentioned in the letter.
Al
Nick says
Al
I also feel somewhat uncooperative ii this case. I’m sure that if I reply with a copy of the appeal letter they will say that that the fine is valid because it is within the 360 days from identification which is what they always seem to maintain. Of course, the appeal isn’t up to them but I wonder if they have any influence. On the other hand being bolshy might not help either. I’m thinking of just replying with the tracking number enquiring why on earth this hasn’t been delivered yet since it’s been sitting at the post office since the 15th.
Nick
Nick says
Al
Sent an email to EMO saying I was concerned that the letter hasn’t been delivered with a copy of the tracking result from the posteitaliane website. This is their reply:
we would like to give you the answer and know the reason why the letter is still at Lucca post office. Unfortunately we cannot.
However, although we do understand that you sent the appeal, we still need the copy of the registered mail in order to update your dossier and inform the Police, accordingly.
So maybe it’s worthwhile sending them a copy
Nick
Al says
Nick,
And to think that postal reliability is Italy’s strong suit! 😉
If you wish, you could try filling out the (Information request/Complaint) online form (with a copy of the tracking result) on the Poste Italiane website.
http://www.poste.it/online/richiestainfo/home.do
Ask for an answer via email only. You can add that you’ve tried calling the mail centre in Lucca, but nobody ever answers. (I’ve tried!!!)
“So maybe it’s worthwhile sending them a copy”
I don’t know. An appeal must be sent via registered mail.
Will the Lucca police send the appeal to the Prefecture?
Will the Prefect rule on an appeal forwarded by email?
I wouldn’t give the EMO the satisfaction of sending them a copy, but that’s me.
Or you are fed up with all this EMO crap, and you could decide to let the whole matter drop!
Al
Al says
Nick,
I don’t know if you have noticed, but the tracking on the Poste Italiane website shows that, your letter with reference RU100334562GB, was delivered to the recipient on the 15th of February.
http://www.poste.it/online/dovequando/home.do
You can even stamp or download/save (pdf) the “delivery outcome”.
Al
Nick says
Thanks, Al, I hadn’t seen this. The strange thing is on the downloaded “esito” it still only shows it as having been delivered to the Lucca post office. I never did send an email copy of the appeal to EMO, btw
Nick
Nick says
All
Well, more than 360 days have passed and no reply to my appeal so I assume that it has tacitly been accepted. No further communication from EMO either. Should be the end of the matter.
Nick
Nick says
Al
I never received a reply to my appeal and and the 360 days for the decision to be sent expired on the 10th Feb. I gather that is a tacit acceptance of the appeal. I haven’t had any further communications at all so no doubled fine and no further emails from EMO. This does mean, though, that I don’t have written proof and would not be able to present anything to a car rental company for example. Do you think I should email EMO asking them to confirm that the fines have been cancelled or is it better to just let sleeping dogs lie?
Nick
Al says
Nick,
The latter…
Al
John says
Hi, thanks everyone for the time you put in keeping this thread going for so long.
I thought I’d share my experience on this matter, and hopefully get some of your input. Last week I received a registered letter with a speeding ticket from Italy, which matches my stay in Florence last summer (beginning of August). Apparently I was doing about 10 km/h over the 50km/h speed limit. Since I’m well within the 360 days notification period, and as far as I can tell I don’t have any grounds for an appeal (I guess I could slow down the process by asking for more information, check google maps for the speed camera signs etc.), I was just about to pay the 180 euros and get this done with.
Unfortunately, I just received three more registered letters (this time I wasn’t at home, so I only got he notice). At this point, I’m not sure if I want to part with at least 500 euros (I’m guessing the new tickets will probably be at least 80-100 euros each) so I decided to do nothing for now and research more on the possible consequences. Based on my current situation I have a couple of questions, some of them I found in the thread and just want to confirm:
– Should I sign and pick up the new letters, or should I just let the post office mail them back and also do the same for new letters?
– From what I’ve found on this page they can’t charge my credit card, since I already payed SIXT the fee to give my info to the local police. So the rental car company should be out of the picture?
– I live in Canada, is anyone aware or had any experience with a debt collection agency affiliated with Italy that could come after me here?
– I travel to Europe (EU) every few years or so, assuming that I don’t go back to Italy, will I have any problems entering or renting a car in any of the other EU countries? How many years before Italy will drop the case or I can travel back without any negative consequences?
– Not sure if this can be helpful at all, but I noticed that my first name on the official notice is misspelled (last name is ok). Can this help at all in the future, since it doesn’t match my official documents?
It’s unfortunate that Italy has to resort to these sort of tactics. I drove in countless other European countries and never had these sort of issues. I don’t agree with speeding or breaking the law, but just from reading this page this situation is ridiculous and out of control and I don’t think feeding a broken system is the way to go.
Al says
Hi John,
– Although you’ve signed for the first letter, I would let the post office mail them back.
It will not make any difference. You’ll probably receive a “Last Reminder” letter (sent via normal post) and then you might be contacted by a Canadian debt collection agency.
– I imagine you’ve read February 11, 2013 at 10:03 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34915).
There is no absolute guarantee, but they should be out of the picture.
– Read February 5, 2011 at 10:55 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30020)
Read February 25, 2011 at 8:37 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30162).
http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/95205/fine-in-florence.html
– No. The 5-year statute of limitations from the date of the offence is interrupted by any official act relevant to the fine. In your case, February 2013 + 5 years.
– Minor mistake, especially considering that “all other details are correct” and that you’ve signed for the registered notification, thus admitting implicitly that you were the person it was addressed to.
Best,
Al
John says
Thanks for the reply. This sort of answers are a bit concerning:
http://www.justanswer.com/canada-law/5yo9v-hello-contacted-crs-collection-recovery-systems.html
Al, so picking up and signing for the new letters won’t make a difference? I was contemplating if I should just pay for the first one, and “ignore” not sign for the rest. If it doesn’t make a difference, I might as well just pick them up and decide what to do at that point.
Are there any cases that you know of where the collection agency (in a foreign country, in this case Canada) lawfully collected the debt and/or negatively affected a credit rating? I’d be curious to see how many people ran into these sort of issues and how they handled it.
Thanks again for your input.
Kemiker says
Hi John
There are several issues with the Italians trying to enforce fines across borders. It should be noted that even in Europe they are unable to use the court system to enforce fines because their methods are not recognised outside Italy. There is a recognised pan-European legal mechanism for enforcing fines but it doesn’t suit the Italians to use it (it wouldn’t generate any revenue). This is why the EMO resorts to debt collection agencies that try to bully the money out of people. If it was legitimate they would use the courts. As far as I am aware the court system in any country generally require two conditions to be fulfilled before enforcing a cross border fine:
a) it most also be an offence in the country of enforcement
b) a court in the issuing country must have issued a judgement
Again as far as I am aware all countries require that you have had the opportunity to contest the charges in a court of law. Since the courts are not part of the equation in the Italian cases I think it unlikely that a court in any other country would entertain these ridiculous fines. If CRS contact you tell them that they are attempting to collect contested traffic fines on behalf of the Italian police, if they have bought a “debt” then they have been duped. The Italian police are surely grateful for their kind donation! They are almost certainly not licenced to collect traffic fines on behalf of the Italian police and since you have never been convicted of any offence or had the opportunity to contest the charge in a court, it is improbable that a Canadian court would give them the time of day. Add to that the fact that so many of these fines turn out to be unfounded, CRS would be stupid to even consider taking it to court.
So in short, I wouldn’t worry- the legal basis is extremely weak.
Best
Kemiker
Al says
John,
It won’t make a difference in the sense that in either case you’ll receive a “Last Reminder” letter and you’ll probably be harassed by a Canadian debt collection agency.
Read February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012).
No cases that I know of.
Al
Giovanni says
I have received a couple of these notices as well. Lucky for me only 2. One from Sienna and one from Rome. I am Canadian and I will visit Italy again but probably not for several years. I will share my strategy rather than offer advice. I have looked at the unregistered notices and refused delivery of the registered notices. It is totally within your rights to do so. Somewhere above it states that after 5 years the fines become unenforceable so if you stay off these municipalities radar for that amount of time you should be OK. If ever a Canadian collection agency attempts to collect on these I will keep an eye on my credit score and ensure that there is nothing registered against it. If it turns out that it would be in my best interests to settle, I will make an offer somewhere around 30 cents on the dollar. A company might be happy to take it than spend more and more trying to collect and maybe get nothing. After 5 years though (2016) I would consider these to be gone and forgotten.
Martin says
Hi, first of all thanks for this blog and the very friendly people here helping!
I got 3 violations of entering Zona limitado on my honeymoon back in october 2011. Then I got the notice of payment early 2012 and now 19th februari 2013, 3 letters are waiting at the postoffice for me to sign from italy. The amount is ridicoulus!
From my understanding reading this blog(my english is not the best), the 360 days has passed, can I appeal and state that the 360 days has passed?
Also, can I demand getting reply in swedish?
Thank you for clarifying, I tried to read this blog the best i could:)
Al says
Hi Martin,
Send one letter of appeal for the three fines. Same grounds: over 360 days, same town (Prefect).
Read closely :
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Sorry, no Swedish!
Best,
Al
Kemiker says
Hi Martin
You can go to the post office and ask what the recorded delivery mail is together with which language it is written in. You have the right to refuse it if it is not written in Swedish (it will be in English) as is the case for all judicial and extra-judicial documentation issued within the EU. The issuing authority must provide a translation on request and before the case can proceed. This does not change the 360 day limit though so it can’t be used as a stalling tactic. You can read all about it here http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32007R1393:sv:HTML The annex contains the official refusal documentation. Anything you want must be provided in your national language – however, you can expect to have to pay the translation costs if you are convicted – but this is unlikely since none of these cases go to court. I doubt you will hear anything more from them if you use official documentation to demand a Swedish translation. It has to be inderstandable too so a Google translate version would not be acceptable.
Best
Kemiker
Al says
Martin,
When I wrote “no Swedish”, I was referring to the Prefect’s reply (if he ever does reply) to your letter of appeal.
I’ve presumed, perhaps wrongly, that the notices of payment and the three official fines are written in Swedish.
Swedish is one of the languages on EMO’s website.
Al
Martin says
Al and Kemiker, thanks for your reply!
I filled in the appeal template but am a little confused:
1. On the backside of the fine it says “…the notification of the present act must be sent within 360 days from the ascertainment date.” It is less than 360 days within the ascertainment date, but far over the infraction date. So if I am correct, I should point out in the appeal that it is the infraction date that counts, even if they sent me a non-registrant notification only 5 month after the infraction?
2. Is the address I will post to:
Al Prefetto di Sassari, Prefettura di Sassari Ufficio Ricorsi per Violazioni al Codice della Strada Piazza d’Italia 31 07100 Sassari ?
It says in the notification that it must be sent to: SASSARI, PIAZZA ITALIA – 07100 – SASSARI (SS)
alternatively directly to the Justice of the peace of ALGHERO, VIA IV NOVEMBRE, 4 – 07021 – ALGHERO (SS)
Or should I send to both?
Thank you so much for your time for answering!
Al says
Martin,
1. The “Notice of payment before notification” (“friendly” notification) sent via normal mail has no legal value! The 360 day rule applies only to the Official/Registered Notice.
It’s the infraction date that counts! That’s exactly what you’re pointing out in the appeal letter!
– Copy/paste the appeal letter included in September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
– Download Decision 198/1996 as a pdf document from: http://www.cortecostituzionale.it/actionPronuncia.do
(“Anno: 1996, Numero/i: 198”, click on “Ricerca”)
(Click on the adobe reader logo – top right of the page)
– Enclose Decision 198/1996” of the Italian Constitutional Court (with the relevant passages highlighted) and copies of the three official fines.
– Write on the appeal letter: “Allega: fotocopie dei verbali notificati, sentenza Corte Costituzionale 10-17 giugno 1996, n. 198.”
– Send that email to the EMO (Nivi Credit) to inform them that you’ve appealed with the Prefect of Sassari.
2. The address is fine! ONLY to the Prefect!
If the Prefect of Sassari rejects your appeal, do not pay! Your fines are invalid!
Al
Martin says
Thank you Al!
Martin says
Dear Al,
I would need some advice again, today I received 3 PAYMENT DEADLINE REMINDERS of the fines I already appealed to in february. I did as suggested and sent the appeals in registered letters well within time.
Did they just ignore my appeal? do you have any suggestions what I should do with these 3 Deadline reminders?
thanks again
Al says
Hi Martin,
As I suggested in a previous post, you could have sent one letter of appeal for the three fines.
There’s no coordination between the EMO and the Italian Prefectures.
Did you write an email to the EMO (Nivi Credit) to inform them that you’ve appealed with the Prefect of Sassari?
Al
Martin says
Hello Al,
Yes I sent one letter back in february of the three fines and also one email to EMO at the same time to inform them that I did. (this was well within time)
However today I received three Notice Of Payment of the fines but no answer for my appeals.
EMO just keeps asking for a copy of the appeals that I sent to Prefetto di Sassari, however I keep telling them to contact Prefetto di Sassari for a copy.
I understand they have no coordination at all between them other than collecting the fines, so can I just ignore those Notice Of Payment or should I continue and email EMO the copy of the appeals?
Any suggestion is appreciated, thank you so much for your time!
Martin says
Sorry a correction, the latest letters I have now received is PAYMENT DEADLINE REMINDERS, not Notice Of Payment.
Al says
Martin,
I would ignore the “payment deadline reminders”.
The outcome will be the same anyway. You will never pay these invalid fines.
It’s not your job to provide them with a copy of the appeal letter.
They should be as efficient at coordinating with the Police and the Prefecture for appeals as they are at sending fines!
Al
Martin says
Ok, thanks again!
Martin says
Hello again!
Today I have just recieved an answer for my appeal, and ofcourse the fines are “well-founded” according to them. I didnt expect anything else.
So, there is nothing more to do for me now if I am correct? either pay or not pay?
Thanks again for all your help!
Al says
Martin,
Well, you could appeal the Prefect’s decision to the Justice of the Peace …
But enough is enough!
As I wrote in my February 25, 2013 at 5:05 pm reply… 🙂
Al
Keith says
Hello,
I wonder if you can advise me?
In Oct 2011, I hired a car from Rome and drove to Norsia for a wedding.
On Jan 25th this year 2013 I’ve received a letter, which was signed for by a neighbour, from ‘Corpo di Polizia Roma Capitale’ for a Violation of Highway code and fine of €113.11 for ‘driving in a transport reserved lane’
As this letter is 1year and 3 months After the date of infraction, am I entitled to appeal it with the 360 day rule?
If so, are you able to point me in the right direction of a standard letter that I can download to send to them with the appropriate wording? I do not speak Italian!
Can I do this via email? or do I have to Register a letter to them? My 60 days to appeal would run out in March.
Thanking you in advance for any advise!
Kindest Regards,
Keith
Al says
Hi Keith,
You most certainly are entitled to appeal! But not via email!
Read closely :
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
– January 17, 2011 at 10:09 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29814).
Best,
Al
Alex says
Thanks Al, exactly my thoughts….
However I travel to Italy (Rome/Milan) every month for work and hope they don’t arrest me at the airport on arrival for non payment of this fine. I have seen this being mentioned as one of the posts on this site (though poster wasn’t arrested after all) and some others as well. Have you or any other forum members heard about Italian police arresting people for not paying a fine for driving in bus lane ?
thanks
Alex
Al says
Alex,
No! As you know, they try and collect fines through the EMO and, eventually, debt collection agencies established in the offender’s country of residence.
You won’t be arrested at the airport for not paying a traffic fine.
Al
Alex says
Al,
Thanks for the reassurance… I now sit back twiddling my thumbs waiting to see what EMO tries next… I am not going to respond to them…
Thanks for putting up this informative site/comments.. much helpful
Alex
Florentin says
Hi all,
Thanks everybody for the time spent on this blog
I was in vacation with my family in Florence to visit my sister in August 2012. We are from US and rent a car SIXT in Florence for 5 days…I drove only 2 days in Florence and the rest were outside Italy..French Rivira.. and now I received a letter stating that Violation of the Highway code report….I was circulating on the lane reserved for public transportation….Something funny though is that all the time I drove there it was following my brother in law`s car because I don`t know Florence and had no GPS..that`s 100% sure. I received the letter on February 2013 after 6 moths….The instructions on how to pay online leads me to the EMO website with a username and password….normally I would pay it but after I read the tread I have serious doubts because looks like a scam and also what if I will receive another 2-3 letters after…out of nowhere….
Can you please give me an idea, suggestion…I could ask my sister or brother in law to go there and drop the letter or…I really don`t know…I paid with my VISA which is like my checking account…do you suggest to replace it..Is possible that I could get charge if I don`t pay the fine…One more thing…I moved from the address that they actually have on file for me but I still got the mail forwarded to my new address…should I cancel my mail forward service??
I red as much as I could of the comments above….looks like scam to me and is not about 104.02Euro..
Thanks for your help
Al says
Hi Florentin,
EMO is a collection agency officially mandated by a large number of Italian municipalities to notify fines to foreigners.
In Italy car rental companies can/will not usually pay the fines on their customer’s behalf unless the car rental agreement allows them explicitly to do so.
Sixt rental agreement states that the Customer undertakes to pay Sixt Italy by credit card:
– A sum equal to the amount fined to the Client and/or to Sixt Italy for the breach of rules of the Road Code or any toll fees in connection with the use of the vehicle by the Client. He also authorizes Sixt Italy to charge his credit card for any fines notified after the closing of the rental agreement concerning the rental period…
(http://www.sixt.it/en/customer_service/condizioni_contratto.php)
But you have received the fine in the States which would mean that they have chosen, as they usually do, to pursue the holder of the rental agreement. They have not requested the payment from Sixt and I find it unlikely that they will.
Sixt has provided your personal data to the police, they should be out of the picture by now.
Cancel your VISA? Sixt can charge your old CC (expired or cancelled), that card was valid the day you signed the rental contract and your credit card company will accept to pay any claims from Sixt relating to that period.
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
Best,
Al
Florentin says
Al,
Thanks for the answer. So the first and only letter that i received so far and my wife signed for it is the official one?? it says on the left side recommande and Polizia Municipale comune di firenze on the right side.
Al says
Yes.
Alex says
Hi Al/Alex/Kemiker, I got 2 fines recently for driving in the bus lane while in Florence 5 months ago. Upon recalling the dates, I am quite sure that I was sick that day and stayed indoors so couldn’t understand how I could have got the fines. Then speaking to my ex, I figured that she went out driving without telling me (told me she’s off site seeing) on the day and she wasn’t a listed driver on my rental agreement. She now lives in Australia and happy to testify that she drove the car without my knowledge that day.
How would it work in this case, would she get into trouble as she wasn’t a listed driver and drove without my knowledge, would they send her the fine letter in Oz or would I still be liable as I am in UK and was the hiring person with my credit card details
Appreciate any advice as of course I don’t want to pay for the fines which I did not commit
Al says
Hi Alex,
Art 196,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Solidarity principle) states that as owner of your (private) vehicle, or as holder of the rental agreement of the vehicle, you are considered to be jointly liable with the author of the traffic violation for the payment of the fine.
Best,
Al
P.S./ Would I pay for an ex who has fled down under………..? 😉
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Alex says
Damn… Guess I’ll have to pay for this fine though would take them through the pain of providing with photo evidence, make and model of camera, camera calibration stats etc etc as mentioned above all in english… Lets see how long I can pull this
The notification I have received is from municipal police of Florence via normal post so I assume this is the authorised fine letter not the “notification of fine – the notice of payment before official notification”. Although the payments are to be made to Nivi credit. Should I wait for registered post notification before I reply or not ?
thanks for your help
Al says
Alex,
I don’t see the point of asking for camera details, … It would be a waste of time and energy.
You should wait & see if the Official Notifications are sent in time, if you have grounds for appeal?
If not, you’ll have to decide whether you want to pay or not.
Read May 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30749).
Al
Alex says
Al,
Are you saying that there would be another letter coming my way as and “Official Notification” ? So what I have received is not considered an official notification and just a report
bit confused here
Alex
Alex says
BTW: the letter is marked “Violation of Highway code Report” at the top. So this isnt a formal official notice ?
Alex
Al says
Alex,
I was misled by the fact that you wrote that you had received these fines via normal post.
These official notifications were sent via registered mail but your postman just left them without getting a signature.
At the top left of the letter you should see the word “recommandè”. A yellow “Poste Italiane” slip is probably still attached to the back of the envelope.
The official notification is the only one which states that you can appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
Read February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012).
Al
Alex says
Hi Al,
Yes the letter does have the word “recommandè” on top and came with a yellow “Poste Italiane” slip attached to the back of envelope but the letter was left in the letterbox so officially I haven’t signed for any notifications as yet.
Should I wait for a registered one still as another few months I’d be past 360 days timeline ?
thanks
Alex
Al says
Alex,
Even though you haven’t been formally notified (no proof of receipt), Emo will keep on pursuing you. They’ll send you a “Last Reminder” letter via normal post (requesting the same amount) and will eventually “entrust” your file to a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
Just ignore any unofficial last reminder letter you may receive and any future possible contact from a debt collection agency.
Al
Claude says
Hey there,
I hope this post finds all you good people well.
I just received a letter of ‘Violation of the highway code’ on the 23/01/2013. It came by registered mail and we had to sign for it. The letter is saying that on the 26/11/2011 ‘The vehicle drove along road for public transport’ in ‘Valeggio Sul Mincio’ and they are requesting that I pay Eur121. Following the many sections I read above it seems that this goes beyond the 360days from the date of the violation that they say I made which means this infraction should be annulled. Would anyone be so kind to suggest to me how best to go about it. Is there maybe a letter template I should send? I am from Malta which is an EU member.
Thanks and best regards,
Claude
Al says
Hi Claude,
Read closely :
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Send the appeal letter (registered with proof of receipt) to:
Al Prefetto di Verona
Prefettura di Verona
Via S.Maria Antica 1
37121 Verona
Best,
Al
Claude says
Dear Al,
Thanks a lot for your help. It is unbelieveable. I recieved another letter of violation today. This one says that I committed the exact same violation on the 28/11/2011 which is 2 days after the first violation they sent me last week. Both have been sent way after the 360days. I will follow your guidance and write to the Prefetto.
Thanks a lot for your help.
Best regards,
Claude
Al says
Claude,
Send one letter of appeal for the two fines. Same grounds: over 360 days, same town (Prefect): Verona.
Read closely September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Al
Claude says
Hi Al,
Thanks a lot again for your guidance. I am writing the letter right now.
Best regards,
Claude
Dhen says
Hi there.
I’ve just received a bunch of fines from our holiday last July – or rather I’ve received notification from Europacar that they are charging me €193 for admin charges relating to 4 violations. I assume they are for entering a restricted traffic zone.
What is really annoying me is that three of the 4 violations are all from within a 20 minute period, and even more annoying two are within a minute of each other! 10:35 and 10:36, the third being at 10:52. That is one costly wrong turn we took.
This is from Comune di Pistoia. Any advice on how to appeal the three and get them reduced to a single violation – who to contact , and if that were to succeed would we have any hope of having Europacar drop two of the charges, if the local authorities were to strike them out?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Al says
Hi Dhen,
Excerpt from Art. 198,2 of the Italian Highway Code: “For limited traffic zones, the offender […] is subjected to the fine for each single violation.”
Only the Justice of the Peace could eventually reduce the free fines to a single violation but I fear such an appeal would have little chance of success.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Read Kemiker’s comment just above yours.
Best,
Al
Bob says
Hi all, very interesting reading, my situation is that we went on holiday to Italy from 31st July to the 7th August 2012, hired a car from Holiday Autos (used Hertz Advantage Italy), we were as careful as possible, didn’t drive into Rome, only the Airport.
After a rally great holiday the first thing we saw was a 30euro charge appear on the credit card statement on 27th Nov 2012, no notification from Advantage, so we contacted Holiday Autos (HA), Advantage never responded to HA so they refunded us that 30euros. We then got the next CC statement and there is another 30euro charge dated the 14th Dec. We contacted HA again and this time they have come back saying that…
“I truly regret that you were subjected to further expenses which has caused you anxiety.
However, after I have processed the refund of 30 Euros due to the lack of response from Advantage, our partner has managed to finally provide us with the explanation of the local expenses.
Therefore as per Advantage, one of the conditions of the rental is that if Advantage as the owner of the vehicle is asked by the local police to provide additional information with regards to some fine received, they may charge you an administration charge for doing so.
Furthermore, since Advantage was contacted by the local Authorities, with regards to the above mentioned infractions, two files were opened in order to transmit the necessary documents to issue the fines.
For this reason Advantage, as agreed in the contract, has charged you with two administrative fees of Euros 30.00 each to process the files.
Let me inform you that due to security reasons, Advantage does not have the record of the traffic violations, that will be send directly to your home address from the local authorities.
Theses documents will provide the detailed description of the final amount to be paid, the reasoning, and also the method of payment.
What is more, fines can be issued up to 365 days.
I am afraid that neither Holiday Autos nor the car rental company can investigate this with the authorities on your behalf due to the data protection act.
Nevertheless I trust that I was able to clarify your concerns.”
So we are now in limbo waiting for the ‘violation’ paperwork, but I m just annoyed that the rental company Advantage can take finds without explaining why.
Kemiker says
Hi Bob
You should contact your credit card issuer immediately and have those charges reversed with reference to the fact that the allegtions against you are unfounded and yet to be proven. Furthermore the Italian municipalities are known to be cheating foreigners out of money with the help of rental car companies. The police take a EUR15 admin charge, the rental companies have taken 30 each and the EMO will take another 80! Your admin fees will amount to more than the fine.
As for Advantage denying being in possession of of the violation records – bullshit – they must have them. They are sent to the car’s registered owner, which begs the question of why they provided your details without any proof of an offence having taken place? It will be a while before you get anything from the EMO by which time it will be too late to get your money refunded. You ought to write to HA and tell them that all charges made to your credit card are being reversed until such time as, a) you are provided with the documents from the police which made Advantage provide them with your details, and b) the case against you is proven. It’s easier this way than having to do what I am doing now see: http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34802
I wish I had reversed the charges to my credit card in 2011!
Best
Kemiker
Bob says
Hi Kemiker, thanks for the advice, we contacted the credit card company and got the charges reversed, also cancelled the card. The CC company were really good actually, the person dealing with us also said they had heard of the problems with Italy and hire car companies taking payments without you being notified or the motoring offenses not being verified.
So now we wait for the notices to be delivered, so I can only hope they come too late. We still don’t know what the offenses are or when as HA are playing dumb by saying they have no information nor can they supply any due to data protection act, quite what they mean I have no idea as it is supposed to be a fine by us?
Anyway not going to push for info, just let Italians take their time and hope it’s too late to pay.
bs says
We had almost the exact circumstances in Spoleto. Got 6 “administration fees” charged to our cc by Hertz for total of about $300. Said we had signed contract stating we agreed to charges if we got traffic tickets, etc. Called CC company to have charges reversed & they said we couldn’t do it because of what we signed in the contract. OY!!! Are now awaiting fines from police. Still have no idea what we did wrong, & no one wants to help: Hertz or CC company. All this will end up costing more than the entire trip to Italy. Never again!
Al says
Tony,
“I’m just looking for the letter that I need to send to Firenze (what I need to say).”
Once again, READ:
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment. (http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Send the appeal letter (registered with proof of receipt) to:
Al Prefetto di Firenze
Prefettura di Firenze
Ufficio Ricorsi per Violazioni al Codice della Strada (Appeals office for violations of the Highway Code)
Via Antonio Giacomini 8
50132 Firenze
Al
Tony says
Al, great comments/blog!
Here are the facts in my case: Rented a car from Hertz Nov 2011. Received a notice of some “verbale fine” about 3 months later. Then a registered letter dated December 2012 (more than a year after the stated infraction). I was going 63 km in a 50 km zone. Fine is 185.02 Euros.
I tried to use the site to get a picture, but when I put in the license of the car, it never came up.
should I just pay and be done with it, or is in fact the 360 day rule apply here? (over 380 days passed from date of supposed infraction) and if I don’t pay, do I send in a letter with a citation of the law? and if so, what is the actual code in the law (the most recent that applies to me) about the 360 days limit?
many thanks for your help
tony
Al says
Hi Tony,
The fine is invalid, the official notice (registered letter dated December 2012) was sent over 360 days after the date of the violation (November 2011).
I’d most definitely send the appeal letter to the Prefect.
Read closely :
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Best,
Al
Kemiker says
Hi Tony
You didn’t mention which municipality it was. Rome municipality’s website contains the correct interpretation of the 360 day rule which is worth referring to. Likewise the prefect of Florence is known to have accepted several appeals made on this basis. Might as well get the whole lot in the appeal first time round since not all prefects interpret the rules in the same way.
If your credit card was charged by Hertz for the admin fees you can write to them and demand the money is refunded – you have been charged on the assumption the police would get a conviction which they now won’t. I have issued Hertz with a demand for the return of my money + 15% in index linked interest + equivalent charges of my own after having won all of my appeals. They have a few days left in which to pay the money into my bank account or face a lawsuit. Hertz in Denmark have now also taken an interest in the case having previously insisted the charges were perfectly legitimate.
Best
Kemiker
Tony says
Kemiker, thank you for the response. The location was Firenze. The credit card was only charged for the “search” fee which was something like 35 euros as I recall (the fee was deducted from the credit card about 30 days after the supposed infraction). I’m not too worried about this amount. I’m just looking for the letter that I need to send to Firenze (what I need to say). The date of the infraction was something like 21 Nov 2011. The date of the registered letter was 13 Dec 2012 (clearly over 360 days), and I received it 26 Dec.
Your help is appreciated.
thanks
tony
Grace says
Hi al & Alex.. Thanks for the site and the sample of appeal later.. My case is as below (rented car in florence) and would appreciate any comments
Date of offense: 28oct 2011
“On 18nov 2011 the officer verbali, sanzioni and notifiche established that on 28/10/2011… Circulated on a lane reserved for other vehicles as indicated by traffic signs… Responsible party identified on 13/01/2012. The legal term starts from this date (art 201.c.1 c.d.s and art 386 Reg C.d.s) the violation was not immediately notified due to ……….. We hereby confirm that on 13/12/2012 this report was notified and forwarded to the office in charge of the notification ”
This is send by registered mail (date on envelop is 13/12/2012 and receive like 2 weeks later), did not receive any unofficial notice prior to this. The appeal did not state that it must be in Italian.. Jus wondering can if the appeal letter to the Prefect can be send in English..
Also.. Where can I find the (fine)/infraction number ? See a few number on the letter but not sure which is the one that I should quote. what format can I find it in?
Should the date I write be the date they send out the notification or the date I received their notification?
Sample of my appeal letter.. Please let me know any modifications required. Thanks!
—————–
Al Prefetto di …Firenze.
Raccomandata A.R.
Oggetto: ricorso contro multa notificata oltre 360 giorni dal fatto.
la sottoscritta (my name), residente in…(my address), titolare del contratto di noleggio della vettura targa …(car plate no)………..,
premesso che in data …26/12/2012……., ha ricevuto il verbale di accertamento di violazione al codice della strada n. ……???……, fa notare che la notifica dello stesso è avvenuta oltre 360 giorni dal fatto, estinguendo quindi l’obbligo di pagamento.
Come stabilito dall’art. 201, comma 1 del Codice della strada, nel caso di residenti all’estero, il verbale deve essere notificato entro 360 giorni dall’accertamento, calcolati inequivocabilmente dalla data dell’infrazione.
Per quanto sopra
Chiede che il provvedimento venga annullato.
Allega: fotocopia del verbale notificato.
Date…………… Signature
——–
Al says
Hi Grace,
Send the appeal letter (registered with proof of receipt) to:
Al Prefetto di Firenze
Prefettura di Firenze
Ufficio Ricorsi per Violazioni al Codice della Strada (Appeals office for violations of the Highway Code)
Via Antonio Giacomini 8
50132 Firenze
The appeal letter must be sent in Italian.
“La sottoscritta…”
The date you received the notification.
Fine number is usually “xxxxxxxx/11” (for 2011, the year the offence was committed).
Read November 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34504).
Best,
Al
Liam says
Hi Al
Many thanks for your reply, re my query on 6 November.
Is there an official way to challenge this. As it happened over 3 years ago the problem I have is that I can’t remember any deails of the roads we travelled on, any documentation we may have had is long gone.
Many thanks once again.
Liam.
Al says
Liam,
Missed toll payment
http://www.autostrade.it/en/il-pedaggio/mancato-pagamento.html?initPosAra=4_4
Autostrade per l’Italia stations are under video surveillance system. In case of missed toll payment, missing toll ticket, misuse of infrastructures at the toll gates, car plates are automatically recorded to engage civil, administrative and/or legal procedures whenever necessary…
I imagine the letter from Nivi Credit points you to a website where you can see a picture of the back of the car and the license plate.
If not, the only “way to challenge this” would be to contact Nivi Credit and ask for some photographic evidence.
But I would have better things to do with my time. J:-)
Nivi Credit may pass the details of your “debt” onto a debt collection agency established in your country of residence but they have no powers of enforcement.
Read February 5, 2011 at 10:55 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30020)
Al
Liam says
Hi Al
Thankyou once again for your reply 17 November 2012. Your comments and links have proved to be extremely useful.
Kind regards
Liam.
Kelvy says
Hi, can anyone help with this one?
I have been caught in this speeding scam thing too and am unsure what to do next. Alex in the above talks about the the different types of appeal but I’m still not sure what to do.
I have been sent a Violation of the Highway Code which goes back to (they say) 28.7.11 and the date of ascertainment is 14.11.11, is this within the correct time limit as the recent notice I recieved was dated 31.10.12, it also had an orange label type thing on the back which may be some Italian equivilant of registered post that needed a signature but I have not signed for it. Does that make it inadmissable, can they still pursue me even though they do not have a signature?
My other question is who do I apply to to get details of the camera, road signs etc? Would that be the Prefect or the local Police station as I can’t see an address on the letter for that?
I’d be greatful of any help or clarifucation.
Al says
Hi Kelvy,
Why a scam ? You probably did exceed the speed limit.
The yellow slip is the Italian equivalent of registered post.
Where did you commit the speeding violation?
Who sent you this official notification? EMO (Nivi Credit)?
Which Prefect & Justice of the Peace are mentioned?
Your fine (dated 31.10.12), sent over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation, is invalid.
You can try and check the position of the speed camera and relevant signposting on Google Streetview.
Read :
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
– February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment and the two comments below.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012)
Best,
Al
Kelvyn says
Hi Al,
Many thanks for your reply – what a forum! I’m overwhelmed by the amount of information, thank you.
I’ve scanned a copy of the violation letter for you to look at if you don’t mind. I’ve removed any identification and hope it answers your questions.
At the time notified I am not even sure if I was driving as there were 2 of us on the rental agrrement but it was my credit card that was used.
I have done as suggested and gone up and down the stretch of road on Street View as identified in the letter and can see no speed limit signs anywhere only one for the round about as you approach Borgo A Mozzano and no signs on leaving the same area.
As mentioned before the letter arrived in my letter box and no signature was given by me or anyone else. It arrived with no other letters so I can’t be sure whether it was delivered to me or a neighbour who then put it in my mail box. Either way it’s not signed for so does that mean they can still pursue me or should I make an appeal to the Prefect and if so on what grounds.
Many thanks for all your help,
Kelvyn
Date 2012-10-31 Prot. N°
ViOLATiON OF-THE-HIGHWAY CODE
(Legislation dated 30th April 1992, No. 285) Report
It was not possible to contest the following violation immediately, in compliance with Art. 201 c. 1-bis letter “e” of Italian Legislative Decree 30/04/92 No. 285 (New Highway Code), inasmuch as it was observed using a measurement device that allows to establish the violation only at a later time, after the vehicle in question is already at some distance from the place in question and can therefore not be stopped. The instrument is used in conformity with the specific ratification in a stretch of road listed in the special Decree of the Prefect of LUCCA, – 55100 – LUCCA (LU), promulgated pursuant to Art. 4 subsection 2 of the Decree no. 121 of 20/06/02, converted into Law no. 168 of 01/08/02. Therefore, pursuant to art. 196 and 201 of the same Code, the driver of the vehicle, as indicated by the competent authorities, must be considered guilty of the infraction until proven otherwise.
infraction number 177V/XXXX
date of infraction 2011 -07-28
time of infraction 12:32:00
date of ascertainment 2011-11-14
(date as of the statute of limitation starts running)
vehicle make and type LANCIA
Vehicle number plate EX6XXXX
article violated / paragraph ART. 142 C 8
EXCEEDED THE SPEED LIMIT BY MORE THAN 10 KM/H BUT LESS THAN 40 KM/H
Speed limit 50.00 Measured speed 70.00 Speed excess 20.00
(In order to apply the sanction the registered speed is reduced by 5% with a minimum of 5 Km/h if lower than 100 Km/h)
place of infringement VIA I°MAGG1OBORGO A MOZZANO
driver of the vehicle
place of birth
date of birth
place of residence
address (including street number)
Car renting company HERTZ ITALIANA SPA
(renter’s data were provided according to the art. 196 of the Highway Code)
Back Page:
IMPORTANT
Pursuant to art. 202 of the Italian Highway Code, the violation in question can be redeemed through the payment of the reduced sum indicated below, within 60 days from the notification date
Euro 205.96
The above sum includes costs (notification and proceedings).
The payment can be made:
By credit card:
connecting to http://www.emo.nivi.it
using the following codes: Username
Password 4CXXX4682
The payment transaction is handled directly by the bank.
By bank transfer:
Bank
Account N”: Beneficiary: Bank codes:
BANCA SELLA , VIALE REDI 59/61 – 50144 FIRENZE
052869612300
NIVI CREDIT S.R.L. DIV. EUROPEAN MUNICIPALITY OUTSOURCING
IBAN = IT 74 00326802802 052869612300 SWIFT/BIC = SEL BIT 2BXXX
indicating the compulsory reference number
In the event of non payment, after 60 days from receiving this notification, you will be liable for the payment of euros 364.96 fees and interest costs excluded.
Notification Terms and Statute of Limitations. As stated by art. 201 of the Italian Highway Code, the notification of the present act must be sent within 360 days from the ascertainment date. According to sentences n. 477/02 and 28/04 of the Constitutional Court, the ttelivery of the act to the postal service in charge of the notification, within the 360 day deadline, interrupts the statute of limitations. The notification of the act is considered accomplished when the act is received by the recipient. From that date, the recipient has 60 days to pay or lodge an appeal.
If the payment has not been made, you may appeal to the Prefect or to the Justice of Peace. Your appeal must be written in Italian and must be mailed within 60 days after the receipt of the notification, otherwise it will be declared inadmissible.The appeal has to be submitted to the Prefect of LUCCA, – 55100 -LUCCA (LU) , or presented to the aforementioned “Municipal Police Station”. If the Prefect holds the appeal to be unfounded, he will issue a demand for payment of a sum of at least double that indicated in this report. As an alternative solution, you may also appeal directly to the Justice of the Peace of BORGO A MOZZANO, VIA ROMA – 55023 – BORGO A MOZZANO (LU) , within the same 60 day period, in compliance with art. 204 bis of the Italian Highway Code. Your appeal must be filed to the Office of the Judge, upon penalty of inadmissibility, before the end of the aforementioned period.The Justice of Peace will convene an appearance hearing in court. If no appeal is presented to the Prefect, no appeal is made to the Justice of the Peace and no payment is made within the above periods, this document shall constitute the document of execution for the enforced collection of a sum equal to half the maximum sanction applied and for the cost of the proceedings.
Report issuing officers
Police Agent/Officer 15
COREGLIA ANTELMINELLI FRAZ. CHIVIZZANO, 2012-10-31
(place and date of compilation)
The Officer in Charge F.TO COMANDANTE FABIO BIAGIONI
For further information, please call between 09:00-13:00 14:00-16:00 the number +39 055 3440390 or write to infoemo-en@nivi.it , and our staff will provide assistance in English/French/German/Spanish. In order to access all information concerning your dossier, you can also connect to the website http://www.emo.nivi.it, http://www.emo.nivi.it using the aforementioned personal codes.
IMPORTANT: The Municipality has delegated Nivi Credit S.r.l. Div. European Municipality Outsourcing, Via O. da Pordenone 14-20 50127 Firenze – Italy, to carry out all the operations related to this case with contract PROCURA SPECIALE.
Al says
Kelvyn,
I could only find the “Controllo elettronico della velocita” (electronic speed control) signs.
It seems the police hide near to the AGIP petrol station.
Even though you haven’t been formally notified (no proof of receipt), Emo will keep on pursuing you. They’ll send you a “Last Reminder” letter (requesting the same amount) and will eventually “entrust” your file to a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
Just ignore any unofficial last reminder letter you may receive and any future possible contact from a debt collection agency.
Or, if you wish, you can appeal to the Prefect (within 60 days) on the grounds that your fine was sent over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation.
Copy/paste the appeal template (April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment) and send your registered letter of appeal with proof of receipt to:
Al Prefetto di Lucca
Prefettura di Lucca
Piazza Napoleone, 32
55100 Lucca
Enclose with the letter, not only a readable copy of the formal notification, but also Decision 198/1996” of the Italian Constitutional Court with the relevant passages highlighted.
Page 3: “Come si nota dal raffronto […] siano stati identificati successivamente.”
Page 4: “si consentirebbe una protrazione […] ai residenti all’estero;”
Write: “Allega: fotocopia del verbale notificato, sentenza Corte Costituzionale 10-17 giugno 1996, n. 198.”
Download Decision 198/1996 as a pdf document from: http://www.cortecostituzionale.it/actionPronuncia.do
(“Anno: 1996, Numero/i: 198”, click on “Ricerca”)
(Click on the adobe reader logo – top right of the page)
I would also send an email to EMO (Nivi Credit – infoemo-en@nivi.it) to inform them that you’ve appealed against (fine)/infraction number “177V/XXXX” with the Prefect of Lucca.
Should a misguided civil servant deny the appeal, I would, obviously, never pay the “euros 364.96 fees and interest costs excluded”.
Al
Kelvyn says
Wow, this all seems so complex!
What would you advise is the best option – to ignore or appeal
Is what you are saying that because they didn’t get a signature on their last letter they can’t pursue me successfully?
In your experience do you feel that if I appealed it might work in my favour?
Many thanks,
Kelvyn
Liam says
Hi Al
Congratulations on a fantastic website.
At the begining of April this year I received a letter from NIVI Credit acting on behalf of the Italian Motorway Company, Autostrade Per L’Italia Spa. They allege the non-payment of a motorway toll ( Art. 176 Italian Highway Code) on the 13 April 2009. Needless to say I could not remember anything about such an incident given that it apparently happened 3 years ago.
I decided to ignore the letter and wait for the registered reminder.
Last month a second letter arrived, it was not registered and was a copy of the original dated for October.
As the fine was not from the police, and I have not received a registered reminder, do the time scales you have detailed on your site still apply with regard to the 360 days etc as I feel 3 years is pushing it.
Many thanks
Liam.
Al says
Hi Liam,
The non-payment of a motorway toll does not correspond to a “fine”.
The toll to be paid is calculated according to the law (art. 176,16 – Italian Highway Code) from the most distant entry station. Plus fees and expenses.
The statute of limitations is generally considered to be ten years, taking into account that the toll is the amount due for a service.
Best,
Al
Gio says
Hi Guys,
I rented a car in Rome from LOCAUTO in February and I got charged for 9 tickets (about 50 euros each) on my credit cards. I called my bank and they took care of everything and returned the money to my account. However, a couple of days ago I got a NOTICE OF PAYMENT letter for “Circulating in a limited traffic area without authorization” from the city of ORVIETO. I read that someone above just emailed EMO and got their tickets cancelled. I also hear people saying not to do anything about it and just send the next notice back to sender, or wait and appeal. Does the appeal cost money? Also, what happens if they reject the appeal?
Thanks for your help!!
Al says
Hi Gio,
You can email EMO and (hopefully) get your tickets cancelled only if you have grounds for an “informal” appeal. Read the information at the top of this page.
I have not been able to understand if hotel guests are allowed into the Orvieto ZTL area for the duration of their stay or only for the loading and unloading of baggage.
http://www.comune.orvieto.tr.it/ZTL/brochure_zeta_v1.pdf
The €50 charge is the Locauto admin fee for providing your details to the police.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al
Gio says
Can they re-charge you for a ticket that was already appealed though? I noticed that the letter they sent me with the ticket is on the the 9 tickets that were charged on my credit card. However, my bank asked for proof of the infraction and because they were not able to give it to them, they dropped the charges. Now that I closed my account, they sent me the letter with the same ticket that got dismissed. Can they do that?
Gio says
Hi Al,
Ok, I just got what you were saying. So, LOCAUTO charged me €50 charge for giving out my information 9 times, which means I got 9 tickets and they just started to come in the mail?? I don’t even understand how I got 9 tickets in less than 4 days. I emailed EMO but they haven’t gotten back to me yet. Also, I moved so when my official notification comes, it’s either going to go back to sender or get thrown away. Do you have any advice for me at this point?
Thank you!
-Gio
Al says
Gio,
Locauto charged you 9 times €50 for giving out your information 9 times.
Yes, the Orvieto ticket is the first of 9 tickets to come in the mail.
You probably committed 9 separate ZTL violations in Orvieto, Rome, …
I wouldn’t have emailed EMO.
If you have moved, the unsigned receipts for the registered mail should return to sender, marked “nobody by that name at this address”.
Just “lay low”, and disregard any future possible contact from a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
Al
Bob from New Jersey says
Thanks for you site and information!
Here is my experience. I received 2 tickets, 10 months after my trip; one for restricted zone and one for driving in a bus lane (similar to Mr. O), but mine was in Rome. I was able to get the restricted zone ticket cancelled but I paid the fine for the bus lane. I sent the following email to infoemo-en@nivi.it
Regarding: GXXX/FYxxxx and GXXX/FYXXXX
I wonder if these traffic fines can be cancelled due to these mitigating circumstances:
1. I only used the rental car in Rome to go to the hotel, drop my bags, and return the car to the rental station.
2. My hotel, the Hotel Anglo Americano – Via delle Quattro Fontane, 12 – 00184 Roma, Italy, is within the blocks of these fines. (see PDF of hotel address and receipt of hotel booked, arriving on xx October 2011, the day of the ticket.
3. On the day of my arrival, the street Via delle Quattro Fontane was closed off by police due to protests in Rome that day, forcing me onto unplanned streets near the hotel. (see PDF of news article about protests that day in Rome, causing street closures).
I received back:
Dear Mr X,
following your message please be informed that we have already forwarded the document regarding your hotel accommodation to the Police of Rome asking to cancel fine GXXX/FYxxxx as the infraction was perpetrated for entering the Limited Traffic Area to reach your hotel. We will get back to you as soon as there will be further news.
However please be informed that infraction GXXX/FYXXXX can not be cancelled as was issued for driving along a lane reserved only and exclusively to public transportation (buses, taxis), emergency vehicles and the Police. The restriction is indicated with International vertical no-entry signs and the controlling of access to these lanes is carried out either by cameras or by police officers. Private vehicles, with the exception of vehicles carrying disabled people, are not allowed to use this kind of lane. Therefore, even if you were reaching your hotel at the moment of the violation, Municipal Police of Rome cannot reconsider the fine.
And then:
Dear Mr X,
We would like to confirm you that Municipal Police of Rome have cancelled fine number GXXX/FYXXX and the payment for number GXXX/FYXXXX was received and registered. Your position is now settled and closed. You are therefore exonerated from any further obligations relating to the payment of these fines.
Al says
Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Al
Oscar says
Hi Al,
First of all, thanks for being there, and also for answering our questions about unfair fining.
My case is recent (photo at Florence on 8th February’12 and letter on 6th October, 240 days later, certified mail, I signed the letter). One of the fines for ZTL and the other for public transport lane. I think about appealling to the prefect:
– ZTL fine to be removed as I have been lodged in a hotel inside ZTL 6th to 8th feb; I have the hotel voucher, and bill.
– In the other hand the long unexplainable delay (240 days): In fact 8 months later it is difficult for me to remember 8th February (and to have a suitable defense) and even I am not sure whether I was driving at that moment or not (I give my car keys to the hotel staff who went to the parking and brought the rented car to the hotel entrance).
But I think the prefect is not going to consider any of these points, so I don’t know which is worse (appealing increasing fine, or ignoring all this thing).
These are my first and my second fines in my life, I was never fined before and I suspect there is something strange and frustrating with its occurrence (a fine 7 min after the other one), and on account of those reasons I may decide not to pay them, in that case I can expect:
– Not to enter Italy in 5 years with car, otherwise, if police identifies me driving, they can make me pay or abandon my car (inmobilized by police).
– Never enter Italy with car again (I really cannot manage such a nuisance as fines are, in Italy I prefer to use trains, but in this case I was enforced by business to use rent a car, if I am wrong and I cannot see those signals, I prefer not to get in further problems anymore).
– The address where the mail was received, may receive further disagreable mails, but they cannot force me to pay, only noise.
– I can find problems (even without car) if I am arrested by another thing (However it is unlikely).
But all of these is not sure, is it? What do you think about?
Best Regards
Mr O
Al says
Hi Oscar,
If you send an email to the EMO, the Florentine police may cancel your first (ZTL) fine.
(You were leaving the hotel on the 8th of February).
Read October 2, 2012 at 6:41 am comment (Florence ZTL policy).
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34255).
But they won’t cancel the second (public transport lane) fine.
Read Bob’s October 23, 2012 at 4:02 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34391).
I wouldn’t recommend appealing to the Prefect.
Either you send that email and get (hopefully) that ZTL fine cancelled and pay (or not) the second fine, or… you “ignore all this thing”.
EMO will send you a “last reminder” letter and then eventually “entrust” your file to a debt collection agency established in your country of residence. “Only noise”.
I wouldn’t have any qualms about returning to Italy (with or without a car).
Read also October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Best,
Al
Luke says
Hi Alex,
I just got a fine that sent out to me on the 330th day since the infringement. It was for “driving in a limited traffic area without authorization.” I cant remember at all where or how I got this fine. I have a feeling that I paid this already but emailing them they said that I didn’t. Whats the best option for this and can I not pay it and leave it if I am not travelling back to Italy anytime soon? (Do they scrap the fine)
Al says
Hi Luke,
You were probably charged an “admin fee” by the car rental company for providing your details to the police.
Have you received the unofficial or official fine?
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
The official notification is sent via registered mail and is the only one which mentions that you can appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
Best,
Al
Luke says
Its a notice of payment. What happens if I don’t pay it?
Al says
Luke,
Presumably you’ll receive in a few weeks the official registered notice (“Violation of the Highway Code Notice”) which will be over the 360 day limit.
You then appeal to the Prefect within 60 days.
Read September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Read September 28, 2012 at 7:03 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34239).
Al
Luke says
So I can ignore this letter for the moment and wait to see if i receive a violation letter…
Thanks mate! Really appreciate the effort you put into this site!!
Nick says
Hi Al
I second (and third and fourth etc) everybody’s praise for this website.
Today I received three “Notice of payment” letters from Nivi Credit although the letter is headed “Polizia Municipale Comune di Lucca”. They are in English and state the date of infractions as 2011-09 1, 2, and 6. The letter is dated 1st October so this is already outside the 360 day limit. However, they also state “date of ascertainment” as 22nd and 28th December 2011 and 4th January 2012 so they are basing this on the identification date and not the offence date. At this point what should I do? Should I reply saying that they are out of time and quote the relevant article or wait for the real fine to arrive and then appeal on the basis that it is out of time? BTW this letter heads it as “NOTICE OF PAYMENT Contravention of the Italian Highway Code” without the words “Notice of payment before notification”
Nick
Al says
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the praise. And for reading at least part of this endless page.
The title of the notice was probably changed in an attempt to be more intimidating? 🙂
As you know, the official notification is sent via registered mail and is the only one which mentions that you can appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
The “real” fines will probably be sent around mid-December.
Writing to EMO (Nivi Credit) would be a waste of time!
Wait for the official fines and send the appeal letter to:
Al Prefetto di Lucca
Prefettura di Lucca
Piazza Napoleone, 32
55100 Lucca
Read closely September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al
Nick says
Thanks Al
I think it’s interesting that they use the word “ascertainment” which I suppose is because the act uses “accertamento” although this now has been shown to be the time of the offence. Another way for them to confuse the motorist. My only concern is is that the appeal can still be rejected and then the fines would double. I’m a regular visitor to Italy (lived in Milan from ’85-’93) and would hate this hanging over me but don’t feel like paying fines that are not valid.
I went to the link http://www.cortecostituzionale.it/actionPronuncia.do to download the pdf but the pdf download isn’t working. Clicked on the printable version of the page and saved as pdf (nice touch in chrome) I shall definitely appeal.
Nick
Al says
Nick,
The pdf download works fine when I click on the adobe reader logo (top right of the page) with IE or Firefox.
Should a misguided civil servant deny the appeal, I would, obviously, never pay and return to Italy without any qualms.
Al
Nick says
Al
Your estimate of the real fine arrival was bang on as I received the first one in the post yesterday. It was just pushed through the letterbox and is, therefore, unsigned so they are not going to get a receipt. I haven’t opened it yet. However, if they do not get a receipt how does that affect the validity of the fine? After all, at this point they cannot prove I received it. I apologise if that’s been answered elsewhere but if it has I missed it. Interestingly, the return receipt is only in Italian and French. I assume the normal procedure is for the postman to get the signature and retain the return receipt. Now, there is a further problem. If I were to proceed anyway and make an appeal it would be impossible to comply with one of the conditions, namely that a return receipt is required. Royal Mail in the UK no longer offer this service. They have an “international signed for” service but there is no return receipt. I wouldn’t be surprised if any appeal was thrown out if did not comply precisely with all the requirements. What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks so much for your help
Nick
Nick says
Al
Just saw this in a reply “If you “remain silent”, EMO won’t bother to send you another official (recorded) fine. You’ll receive an unofficial “last reminder” letter”. If the fine has not been signed for could the response be, for example, “reminder for what? I haven’t received anything” or would that not carry any weight?
Nick says
Oh, and one other thing. Is the 60 days for appeal also based on when the appeal is sent or when they need to receive it?
Al says
Nick,
Two options:
1 – “I don’t give a damn” option.
You will not have signed for the three official fines, you will not be formally notified and the EMO won’t be able to provide any return receipt.
You’ll dutifully ignore any contact attempts (last reminder letter) from the EMO or from a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
2 – “Proactive” option. (Even though you haven’t been formally notified)
Once you’ve received the other two official fines (within the end of the month), you write one letter of appeal for the three fines to the Prefect of Lucca.
Even if you won’t get a copy of the signature taken on delivery, send it “International signed for”.
The 60 days for appeal is based on when the appeal is sent. You “received” the first fine on the 10th of December. + 60 days = the 8th of February.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Send that email to the EMO.
Whether the Prefect accepts, denies or never answers the appeal, the end result is the same.
You will never pay these invalid fines.
Al
Nick says
Al,
I now have a few days left in which to send my appeal if I take the proactive option although I think that the date is a somewhat loose as they have no record of when I received the notification. I am still undecided on which line to take, however. I would normally take the proactive option as that is my way but in this case I’m also curious to test the “I didn’t receive them” approach. If I do go down that route wouldn’t I be better off replying to a last reminder letter by email stating that I have not received any fines and getting that on record?
Nick
Al says
Nick,
So, you will acknowledge receiving the last reminder letter but not the six previous letters. 😀
They’ll simply reply: “Dear Nick, now that you know, PAY! And tell your moronic postman to get a signature next time!” What will you have achieved?
Read February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012).
Nick says
Al
Well, I sent the appeals off today. I’ll let you all know what happens, in about a year by the look of things. BTW the addres for the Prefect of Lucca, which is printed on the fine in the section on appeals is Piazza Napoleone 5.
It’s hardly surprising that the post office here doesn’t get the avviso signed – it’s in Italian and French!
I’ve made a pdf of the Sentenza 1996 with the relevant paragraphs highlighted. If you feel this could be useful for others I could post this for download from my ftp.
Thanks again for all the help here.
Nick
Stephen says
Gentlemen,
Firstly what a fantastic website, thanks so much for such a bank of useful and helpful information.
My problem may be a bit of a curveball for you…I am an actor and for the first five months of this year I was touring Italy with a show. We had a rental car for the duration of the tour and three of us were designated drivers. Stupidly, I volunteered to register with the rental company as the lead driver. So all fines and penalty points are charged to me, even if I wasn’t driving, which in this case I was not.
Today I have had two fines through my door for violating the Florence ZTL for ‘circulating without authorisation’. The date of the infraction is the 24th March and the times are just sixteen minutes apart at 8:13 am and 8:29 am. At the time we were trying to find the location of the school we were performing in. We had registered our car reg number with the hotel for the previous night and I think we informed the school although I am not sure.
The letter came in both English and Italian, so I cannot claim the language barrier to stall them, and they are courtesy of the ‘Nivi Credit SRL – divisione EMO’, which I presume to be the debt collection agency you mention above. The ‘responsible party was identified on 14/05’ and the legal term started from that date too. I must pay within 60 days of receipt of the fine.
I am at a loss of what to do…We followed all the company procedures and did everything that was asked of us. It seems highly unfair to have to pay these fines.
I would greatly appreciate your advice.
Many Thanks,
Stephen
Al says
Hi Stephen,
I suppose you received the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” sent by regular mail.
The official notice, sent via registered mail, is headed “Notification of Violation of the Highway Code” and is the only one which mentions that you can appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
The official fines will probably be sent in time (before the 20th of March 2013).
Read May 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30749).
The hotel should have informed you that the ZTL policy in Florence is the following:
Tourists in cars who need to travel within the ZTL to reach their accommodation facilities or a garage can obtain a temporary access permit. In order to obtain this permit, communicate your licence plate number to your accommodation facility (or garage); they will forward it to the appropriate office.
A temporary permit is issued for a maximum of 2 hours (for baggage transport purposes) only on arrival and departure dates. For the remainder of one’s stay clients must park their car either outside the ZTL or in a commercial/hotel’s private garage inside the ZTL.
http://en.comune.fi.it/mobility/driving.html
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Let’s hope you won’t get any more fines for ZTL violations (in Florence or elsewhere). 😉
Best,
Al
Stephen says
Hi Al,
Thanks for your last message.
I am actually confused as to which document this is; whether it is the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” or the “Notification of Violation of the Highway Code”.
I will tell why I am confused in the hope you can help me.
The title of the letter in bold is quote “Violation of the Highway Code report”. This sounds like the official document but it does NOT have the word ‘Notification’ in the title.
It is does not mention I may appeal to the Justice of the Peace or the Prefect.
There is a Royal Mail stamp on the envelope saying ‘Signature Required’. I did not sign for this, it was just posted through my door.
So, basic question, what document have I got?
I have about 19 days left in which to pay if this is the Officlal Notification. Im confused because it could be either of them…
Al says
Hi Stephen,
It is the official fine (“Signature required”) but I find it very hard to believe that there is no mention (on the back of the letter) of the fact that you can appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace of Florence.
Read February 4, 2011 at 6:46 pm comment and the two comments below.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30012)
Al
Stephen says
Cheers Al,
So i have taken from that if I ignore it, I won’t need to pay. They have no proof I received the fines. Is this correct? Will this stop me entering the country?
One last question please, if we do decide to pay, how do inform the authorities that I was not driving? it was another of the company and i do not want this on my record.
Al says
Stephen,
You’re welcome back to Italy.
A ZTL violation is a civil offence.
You won’t have a criminal record for this. 🙂
Al
Kemiker says
Dear All
Following confirmation of my successful appeal in August (http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34057) I’m pleased to inform you that my second appeal must also be deemed to have been accepted. This one was based purely on the 360 day argument and ECHR breaches. Although I haven’t got it in writing, the deadline for issuing a response passed last week. I had a third violation which I assume was dropped since I never heard anything more. Had I just given in and paid up 2 years ago when I first got these damn fines, I would now be 600 euros poorer than I am today. As it is I’m now in a position to demand the admin fees back from the rental company. I gave them the chance to repay the fees until a conviction was obtained in each case, or accept that I would index link them to a specified stock. Well they didn’t so I did and the stock has risen 10% in the meantime. I am now demanding the money returned + 10% + admin charges of my own for a total of about 300 euros. If they don’t pay I have an excellent case to put before the small claims courts – and I will if necessary 🙂
I owe Al and Alex a great debt of gratitude for this blog to which I have become a fairly irregular contributor over the past 2 years, so thanks guys :-). I hope the reduction of activity on this blog is a sign that the authorities are beginning to take note of all the complaintscoming in as a result of the efforts made here, and have re-examined their interpretation of the 360 day rule when people appeal.
I’m going to Italy next week on business and I’m seriously thinking about taking the written confirmation of my first appeal with me to wave at every policeman I see. Keep fighting!
Best
Kemiker
LYNN DAVIS says
Hi Alex
Just returned from Italy. Stayed i the mountains near Tuscany and didn’t travel far. Just got letter saying something i don’t understand and asking for us to pay a fine of 172 euros. The odd thing is it says the offence took place in Commune di Affi near Verona. we were 309 kilometres away. on the day in question we were in San Gimignano in the evening and at the villa at the time statedont he documents. What can we do? ANY ADVICE GRATEFULLY RECEIVED. Lynn
Al says
Hi Lynn,
Probably a fine for speeding on the A22 motorway?
From what little information you posted, I’d say just ignore it.
Was the letter written in Italian? Who sent it? By registered mail?
Best,
Al
Kemiker says
Hi Al
It is indeed disappointing that the decision does not contain a bit more detail. However, since the rebuttal from the police is “accessible” I had thought that perhaps I would ask for a copy 🙂
That way we can see what was said.
There is also a discrepancy between the decision “lack of sufficient evidence to confirm the finding of a (traffic) violation” and the charge sheet “the driver of the vehicle, ……, must be considered guilty of the infraction until proven otherwise.” The decision does not indicate that I proved my innocence, it says that I was not proven guilty which reinforces my assertion that the presumption of guilt is illegal according to ECHR. I made this point to the Italian ambassador some time ago and the police chief in Florence said that it did not apply. Clearly it does!
The fact of the matter is that they are not prepared to admit to serious failings in the system. There was a photograph of the rear number plate of the car that I was driving which according to the police/EMO is sufficient to prove anybody guilty of an offence. In the vast majority of cases, this is evidence enough to get a conviction. This is why it is so unreasonable to put up a forest of speed cameras in a region with such poor signposting, send out fines a long time after the alleged offence and demand communicaction in Italian. Most people, and especially foreigners, have no chance of being able to prove their innocence.
In my case I was able to present crushing evidence. I went past a speed camera at 72 kmh in an area where the signposts indicated that the limit was 90. The police claimed it was a 50 limit. Only because we were staying in the area, and a few days later drove down the same road in the opposite direction, was I able to foresee a potential problem when I noticed that the speed limit was signed as 50 kmh in the southbound lane. So I turned around and took a photo to prove that there was nothing to indicate a speed limit of less than 90 kmh – it was a picture of the end of city limits sign with the camera in the distance. This coupled with a picture sequence from Google streetview made my case airtight. I had expected to be sent pictures of a 50 kmh sign by the police refuting my claim which thankfully did not happen in this case.
When I wrote to the ambassador and complained about the poor signposting and the fact the sign posts and road layouts could easily be changed during the time that elapses betweenthe alleged offence and the issuance of the fine, the police chief sent photos of hugely improved signposting In that instance it was the signposting in Via Senese on the southern approach to Florence where many contributors to this blog have been caught out. At the time, the signs were not visible until just before I drove past them, by the time the fine arrived the signposts had been moved, brightened up and multiplied leaving me with no chance of being able to appeal on those grounds.
Anyway this is only the first victory, there’s two more to go so the battle goes on.
Best
Kemiker
funkyfat says
Hi Kemiker, I tried to read across the blog, as it is very huge. But I figured out, that we share the same problem: Via Senese. EMO now send me a picture of the general situation at that fork. The sign looks quiet new: white, reflecting, sober and maybe better positioned as before. Can you tell me if your appeal was successful? And when, what do you think they changed the sign? If they did not change it before June 2011 I will appeal.
Thanks f.f.
Kemiker says
Hi FF
The signposts were changed I believe in July/August 2011, but I’m not 100% sure. When I checked the signposting on Google after getting the first notice in May 2011 the old signs were still in place but when I got down to writing my appeal in September, they had been changed. The no entry sign on the traffic light at the fork is new and the bus lane sign has been brought forward to the corner of the building on the right. Previously this sign was on the same post as all the electronic stuff that’s hanging over the road, ie beyond the point of no return. It was also in 3 parts, the top sign was a no vehicular access sign, the middle one had pictograms on it which I am not familiar with but which detail exceptions to the entry restriction, including times, and the bottom one had times of day and days of the week written on it, again a list of exceptions. It was not possible to properly read the sign from the traffic light, especially not if like me, you are behind a van. As soon as you go through the traffic light you are gauranteed to get a fine because there is no possibility to stop and turn around. That’s why so many contributors to this blog have been caught there and why I complained to the Italian ambassador that it was a tourist trap and unreasonable – as with so much of the region’s signpost/enforcement camera combinations. I haven’t appealed that fine on the basis of the signposting although I should have done. You could try asking Google for the old imagery of the area together with the date at which the new imagery was captured and make your appeal on that basis.
Good luck
Kemiker
Kemiker says
Dear All
I am delighted to inform you all that this morning I received one of the rarest documents in existence. The Prefect of Florence accepted my appeal against my speeding fine 🙂 but it seems this was due to lack of evidence rather than the other complaints I included like the time limits.
The letter reads as follows – Al would you please offer a translation. I have one from you know where but I don’t dare post it 🙂
Visto il verbale n.XX del 26/6/2010 elevato dal Comando Polizia Municipale di Figline Valdarno:
atteso che l’obliazione non è intervenuta,
visto il ricorso presentato dal sig kemiker nato a il e residente a Danimarca avverso il verbale di accertamento con le motivazioni esposte al riguardo;
lette le controdeduzioni dell’organo accertatore i cui atti sono accessibili;
ritenuto di accogliere il ricorso pe la seguente motivazione: insussistenza di elementi sufficienti per confermare l’accertamento della violazione
vista l’ordinanza prot. n. del 31/1/2012 con quale il prefetto di firenze assegna la temporanea reggenza dell’ area III alla Dott.ssa Livia Benelli vice prefetto;
Visto altresi il provvedimento nr. 2443/2011/30.6 Gab. del 26/10/2011 con il quale sono stati conferiti gli incarichi per la sostituzione del dirigente in caso di sua assenza
Ordina
il ricorso di cui sopra è accolto per i motivi indicati in premessa
Il Comando Polizia Municipale di Figline Valdarno è incaricato di comuincare quanto deciso all’interessato
My grounds for appeal were:
incorrect/missing/illegible signposting of the speed limit
illegal placement of a speed camera
incorrect language of the charge sheet from the EMO (ECHR)
illegal statement in the charge sheet from the EMO (ECHR)
expired time limit
I backed the appeal up with a lot of photographic evidence some of which I got from Google streetview. So if you get a speeding ticket make sure you check the location of the camera and the signposting! A lot of the signposting is crap and certainly not good enough for a region that is stuffed full of enforcement cameras. If you have been caught on the speed camera on the way out of San Giovani Valdarno going north towards Figline Valdarno – GET IN TOUCH, I have the evidence you need for a successful appeal.
Best
Kemiker
Al says
Hi Kemiker,
That’s a first! Well done! A successful appeal to an Italian Prefecture! 😀
As you say, “one of the rarest documents in existence”, if not the only one received by a foreign resident.
Those cowards declined to rule on any of the grounds presented.
Instead, they chose to hide behind a generic reason: “lack of evidence”!
Did they misplace the photograph? 🙂
Here’s my best attempt at translating the text you so kindly 🙂 provided, Kemiker:
Having regard to fine No XX dated 26/6/2010 issued by Comando Polizia Municipale of Figline Valdarno:
since the payment has not been made,
having regard to the appeal lodged by Mr Kemiker born in … on … and resident in Denmark against the fine with the reasons given therein;
having read the rebuttal arguments presented by the ascertaining body/police, whose proceedings are accessible;
deemed that the appeal be upheld for the following reason: lack of sufficient evidence to confirm the finding of a (traffic) violation;
having regard to ordinance reference number … dated 31/1/2012 with which the Prefect of Florence confers temporary regency of Area III (Implementation of Administrative Penalty System) to Mrs Livia Benelli, deputy prefect;
having also regard to order No 2443/2011/30.6 Gab. dated 26/10/2011 which assigns the tasks for the replacement of the manager in the event of his absence;
Orders that
The above appeal is upheld for the reasons indicated in the introduction.
Comando Polizia Municipale of Figline Valdarno is charged with communicating the decision to the interested party.
Best,
Al
Steve says
Hello:
Just received 2 tickets from EMO via Florence & Rome police and both are outside the 360 day limit. I went to the web-site and it has a picture of the rental car I was driving. Florence was running a red light within the city and a extra fine for it being between 10pm-5am. ( I was just going to my hotel.) Rome was driving in Limited access area. I have been in e-mail talks with EMO, they tried to bully me on the 360 limit for offenders living abroad. Finally, they said I could appeal to Perfect or Justice of the Peace in each area. I explained to them that EMO should tell Florence & Rome that these infractions are outside the 360 day limit. I told them it is not my job to appeal, it was there job not to submit the letter to me in the first place. I am waiting on a response.
Steve
Ash says
ur too good Al.
You have my vote for president
Ash says
Hello all,
I have received a fine about driving in a limited traffic area in Venice. I have also received other zonal fines from Florence and Verona but not 100% what they were as I just threw them away. I’ve chosen to go down the route of ignoring them and pretending they were never received by me. Does anyone know if these fines will ever catch up on me if i am to return to Italy in the future? (I was in in Italy during 8/11)
Best,
Ash
Al says
Hi Ash,
I would have no hesitation in returning to Italy.
Best,
Al
Jose Vira says
Thanks AI for your prompt answer. If I get any more news I’ll let you guys know.
I just find out Italy is a bit like Portugal on steroids; same defects, much larger scale. What a shame.
And mark my words – they will also default, no doubt.
I see exactly the same kind of fenomena that lead my country to default.
Jose
Jose Vira says
I have a specific question: I’ve got in a ZTL in Rome with a rented car on the 6th of July (just to get wife and bags fro the hotel). Only today I’m fully aware of this ZTL problem. I contacted the Hotel today (July 12) asking them if I still can give them the licence plate number and they say it’s too late… Is this true? What can I still do?
Many thanks
Jose
Al says
Hi José,
Too late? Well, I think so. Within three days after, if I’m not mistaken.
If/when you receive the fine, email your hotel receipt/booking details to EMO.
Read May 31, 2012 at 7:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-33685).
Best,
Al
Dessie says
Hi to all from here in sunny Ireland,
Just came across the blog again. I was in Italy in summer of 2007. Got 2 fines in the post in 2008. One for Pisa €113 and 1 for Aeezzo €107.20. Got the fines in summer of 2008. Sent a letter off to IL Guidice Di Pace with essentially a load of bull**ite and stated that as far as I was concerned the matter was closed. Got a last reminder letter on 29/8/08 and ignored it. Nothing since! By the way I always cancel my credit card immediately after a holiday for security reasons!!
Heading off to Northern Italy next week for a 10 day drive around the Lakes. Will probably get a train in to Venice but will drive into Verona and Mantua. Will be wise for the signs this time and will report back if any news on how we get on. Love Italy but hate the “honey traps”. Not much you can do if in a line of traffic into a city centre. My advice is not to lose any sleep over these minor issues that a good long winding letter would sort out. Play them at their own game.
Dessie
David says
Dear Al
Thank you for your reply (21st June 6.11pm). The notice I’ve received doesn’t seem to have come from EMO; it seems to be direct from the local police. It’s headed Comune di Pistoia, has a standard signature at the bottom for ‘L’Ispettore di PM’ and a mention at the end of the text of ‘Gli agenti: 227.SCARTABELLI SERGIO’. The text includes the sentence: ‘This formal notice, its serving and everything connected with it are governed by the international conventions’. This being so, am I likely to receive a registered mail version, and does the 60 days for payment at the basic rate run from receiving this communication or from receiving (if ever) a notice by registered mail?
Regarding the photograph, it seems from what you say that a photo showing, effectively, just the car number plate and nothing else, is an uncontestable proof of an offence – unless you can prove you weren’t there. As the car I was in was Italian registered and I was there, that’s probably that. But what is the safeguard against the local police just sending somebody out to take snaps of foreign number plates at random, anytime the coffers need filling?
Thanks again.
David
Al says
David,
To my knowledge, the comune di Pistoia had delegated EMO (Nivi Credit) to notify fines to foreigners.
It doesn’t seem to be the case anymore, though. The notice you’ve received makes absolutely no reference to EMO and refers you to the Pistoia police website.
The 60 days for payment (or appeal) run from the day you receive the official notification. The latter must be sent by registered mail and mention that you can appeal to the Prefect of Pistoia or the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
I would surmise that you’ve received the official fine (“this formal notice”), especially if the appeal authorities are mentioned.
But oddly by posta prioritaria and not by registered mail!? No yellow Poste Italiane receipt still attached to the back of the envelope, right?
Therefore, I would simply ignore it.
Regarding your last question, I wouldn’t put anything past the Italians. 🙂
Al
Marek says
Hi Alex, hi Al,
I am from Poland. I live here, I always was and I am and I will be Polish :). Anyway – EU citizen now.
I have just got “Notification of payment”, dated 28th May 2012.
The Notification has the “date of infraction”: 30th April 2011.
There is also: “date of ascertainment”: 30th April 2011.
I understand that I can legally avoid paying (over 360 days between … etc.).
Is it the ground for “informal appeal”?
What would you recommend to do now? To write to Nivi/EMO or to wait for the final “Notification of violation”? I understand that writing to Polizia Municipale Comune Follo (original authority of my fine) is senseless?
You write: “To cut a long story short, foreign drivers who have received fine notifications beyond the 360 period can write and request that the fine, or fines, be annulled”.
Is this fact a sufficient reason both for prefect and for a Justice of the Peace?
{
BTW: I got “Notification of payment” (and not “(…) before official notification”). I understand this is the same kind of document since at the end of its 2nd page there is: “The present notice is not a Notification of violation and therefore it permits the recipient to make the due payment in amicable circumstances”.
}
Regards
Marek
Al says
Hi Marek from Poland,
Are you certain that the dates of infraction & ascertainment are the same?
If so, they have probably made a mistake in typing the date of ascertainment.
You could send an email to EMO (Nivi) demanding that they cancel the fine which was sent over 360 days after the 30th of April 2011.
If they don’t, wait for the official notification and appeal to the Prefect of La Spezia.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Read also February 1, 2011 at 9:39 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29985).
Best,
Al
harry stein says
i got one of those notifications of a moving infraction.
what if i dont pay?
can i get arresred if i go back to italy?
Al says
Hi Harry,
No. But you might receive “threatening” letters from a debt collection agency established in your country of residence. 🙂
Best,
Al
David says
Received an ‘Infringements of the Italian Highway Code’ notice today from Comune di Pistoia. Sent by Posta Prioritaire, just over 8 months after the event, it is for ‘driving in a lane reserved for other vehicles’ and refers me to a photograph on a Polizia Munizipale website. I’ve looked at this, and it is completely black apart from the number plate and two of the car lights. The location, time and date are recorded, and I’m able to remember that I was at that place at that time, in the car and that it was after sunset. But there is no context in the photograph to show exactly where or how I committed the infringement. Would this be a viable basis for appealing? And does it matter that the notice was not sent by registered post. Thanks for helping.
Al says
Hi David,
You got the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” from EMO (Nivi Credit).
In a few weeks/months you will receive the official notification sent by registered mail.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
In Italy, for privacy reasons, photographic evidence identifying the offending driver is prohibited. Such pictures are allowed only if taken by laser speed gun and if the traffic offender is pulled up by the police on the spot.
Best,
Al
Martin says
Dear friends,
I recieved today 3 fines from italy were I ENTERED ILLEGALLY RESTRICTED TRAFFIC AREA
I tried to understand your great advises here .
The 3 papers I got says NOTICE OF PAYMENT, can I appeal to this ?
I got them 228 days after the claimed violation, can the really do this?
If I am correct, I should appeal in my own language, which is swedish, and demand they explain in swedish?
thanks for your help
Al says
Hi Martin,
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Since when do you understand English? 😉
Wait and see if the official notifications are sent in time and in English.
Read January 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-328149).
Best,
Al
Jon says
Quick question. If you have obtained multiple limited zone infractions (3) within two different towns which you are accountable for, is it possible to negotiate a lower charge on the combined fees? Or is this more international translating hassle than it’s worth?
Many thanks.
Al says
Jon,
Excerpt from Art. 198,2 of the Italian Highway Code: “For limited traffic zones, the offender […] is subjected to the fine for each single violation.”
Were you staying in a hotel within the ZTL?
You can wait and see if the official registered fines are sent in time.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Read October 8, 2011 at 12:29 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31902).
Al
Jon says
Unfortunatley, not a hotel visit, and all fines are within notification.
So without the option to negoiate fines, I’m left with two options 1) not paying, or 2) paying if I wish to return to Italy.
Although, I have read that they could possibly go after the hire car company for full payment of the fines?
Jon
Al says
Read December 5, 2011 at 12:02 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32283).
Al
Matthew says
Thanks for the extraordinarily helpful information you provide of this site, Al. Without it I probably would have buckled and just paid the fines!
Matthew says
Awhile back, I wrote on this site about two fines I received notice about. I wrote back to the pertinent email address on the paperwork and explained that I simply used my car in Rome to go to the hotel, drop my bags, and return the car to the rental station. I attached a copy of my hotel reservation information.
Today, after several months, I received the following email:
Dear Mr X,
We would like to confirm you that Municipal Police of Rome have cancelled fine numbers XXXX/XXXXXX and XXXX/XXXXXX. Your position is now settled and closed. You are therefore exonerated from any further obligations relating to the payment of these fines. Thank you for your collaboration.
I’m hoping that that’s truly the end of it all. I guess the only money that I’m out is whatever the ridiculous fee was the rental agency charged for passing along my information!
Al says
Matthew,
Congrats!
And thanks for the feedback.
Al
Gio says
Hi Matthew,
I, too, just received a NOTICE OF PAYMENT, and I was wondering if you waited until you got the actual official notice or if you emailed EMO as soon as you got your first notice? I’ve been reading the comments and most of them say to wait to appeal until you get your second notice but it sounds like you got your tickets cancelled by just emailing EMO?
Gemerman says
P.S.
The letter was dated: 24.06.2010
Forgot to mention that!
Kemiker says
Gemerman
I’m sure Al will fill you in later, but what was the date on the envelope? The letter may have a “convenience date” on it meaning that they made it up to fit within the legal time limits. If the envelope is stamped this year then you know they are making it up and you should just scan it and email it to them with some suitably derogatory comments indicating that they are way too late, and that you do not appreciate them falsifying documents for the purposes of extracting money from you. The amount is wrong too, the fine should be about $160 for that offence.
Best
Kemiker
Gemerman says
Hi Kemiker,
Thanks for getting back to me.
Actually, I received the letter in 2010, I believe it was July, but to be honest, I was dumb enough and threw the envelope out.
So, it looks like they were within that 360 day period, but as mentioned before, nothing was signed and nothing was attached to the envelope to be signed.
Now, what really interests me is, what would the Italian police do, if they stopped me in Italy:
A) Arrest me and keep me locked up indefinitely until I’m able to pay the fine?
B) Confiscate the rental car?
C) Deport me on the spot?
It’s really too bad. Italy is such a beautiful country and I wish they’d treat their tourists a little nicer. Especially now, since their economic situation is dire and they need us tourists.
Cheers,
Gemerman
Al says
Hi Gemerman,
The infamous speed camera on SP370 Km 14+200!
Read December 5, 2011 at 11:07 pm comment.
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32295
“hypothetically, if I would to return to Italy and I was stopped by a police officer, what would they actually do?”
Nothing! Because there’s no centralised traffic offender register.
Best,
Al
Gemerman says
Al & Kemiker,
Thank you so much for your advice.
It’s been nearly 3 years since my last trip to Italy, so, I think I’ll risk it.
I love the country and the people and have no idea when I’ll be able to return there in the future.
Wish me “Good Luck”!
Gemerman
Gemerman says
Hi,
Okay, so here is my problem.
I was in Italy, Riomaggiori in Aug. 2009. I received an unofficial letter in English stating the following:
Nr. of Form: *********(I’m leaving those out on purpose)
Date & Time of Offence: 08-08-2009 17:08.00
Brand of Vehicle:********(I’m leaving those out on purpose)
License Number: *********(I’m leaving those out on purpose)
Nature of Offence: Art.142/8: The person was driving the vehicle indicated at a speed of 73 Kph, exceeding more tahn 10 Kph the fixed speed limit of 50 Kph, but not more than 40 Kph, for that road stretch of for that vehicle category.
Points reduction: 5
Equipment: Velomatic 512 ROE 3 matr. 1479/1438 Ormolog. MM.LL.PP Prot.2961 del 27/11/1989
Place of offence: SP 370 km 14+200
Name of Owner / Leasee of vehicle: ********(I’m leaving this out on purpose)
And then my address in the country where I’m residing.
This came by regular mail. There was nothing to sign and I never received any other mail from:
Comune di Riomaggiore
Polizia Municipale
Via Del Santuario, 123a
19017 Riomaggiori (SP)
Republica Italiana
Tel.*******
E-Mail: ********
I contacted them via e-mail explaining my situation, that I wouldn’t be able to pay. My holiday was paid for and I have had a stroke since the incident and hadn’t and still am “not working” and wouldn’t have the funds of $436. (plus up to $60 in bank fees)
After a while I received an e-mail saying I could pay in instalments, which would cost me even more, since I would have to pay the bank fees various times.
No, hypothetically, if I would to return to Italy and I was stopped by a police officer, what would they actually do?
Will they arrest me indefinitely? Take the rental car? Deport me???
Thanks for your help,
Gemerman
Muriel says
Hi,
We rented a car in Roma, Italy on May 4th, 2011.
I received a first letter from Hertz on July 6th 2011 with 36€ for “verbale fine on line”. And I just received yesterday a new one dated March 14th, 2012 with 36.30€ for “no transit area riservata”.
Both infractions are dated from May 4th, 2011 at the same time: 11:35.
I understood that those 36€ were administrative fees but I don’t understand why I have 2 of them for the same infraction.
What should I do?
Al says
Hi Muriel,
Hertz Rental Terms
It is the customer’s responsibility to pay any fines, road tolls, … Hertz will provide customer data to relevant local authorities and will recover the costs through a reasonable administration fee of EUR 36.30 (including tax) per parking or traffic fine.
If you were charged twice for the same infraction (same date & time), I would call the credit card company and have this latest charge of €36.30 reversed.
I would also contact Hertz in Italy.
Hertz Italiana SpA
Via del Casale Cavallari 204
00156 Roma
(0039) (02) 69430019 (tel)
(0039) (02) 69430020 (fax),
customer-relations-it@hertz.com
In a few weeks/months you should receive from the EMO the unofficial “Notice of payment” (regular mail) followed by a “Violation of the Highway Code Notice” (registered mail).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al
Muriel says
Thanks you Al for your quick answer. I will contact them.
As for the infraction notice itself, isn’t it too late for them to send it to me since the date is May 4th 2011, which is more than 360 days from now?
Al says
Yes, of course, that is why I indicated a link to the appeal template in my previous reply.
Al
Juan says
Hey Al,
I am a U.S. military member stationed in Northern Italy. I don’t know if this would make me a resident of italy ( i have a codice fiscale and live in an italian house). I recieved seven seperate fines in registered mail today for a seven ZTL violation on november 10-11 2011 for 88 euro a piece for a grand total of 616 euro! Does the 150 day thing apply to me or would it be the 360 day? Also I am a Jr and it only has my first and last name on the letter. Could I possibly get away with trying to say that is not me? Should i try the killing time “trick” by going back and forth with them over mail asking for a english translation? Should I ask for solid proof (ie pictures) or ask if their camera were in working order that day? What would you suggest?
Al says
Hi Juan,
I guess you were driving a rental car at the time of the ZTL violations, right?
And you gave your Italian address when you signed the rental contract.
Since August 13th 2010, the amount of time traffic fines have to be sent out to Italian residents has been reduced from 150 days to 90.
In such a case (Italian resident, rental with Italian plates):
–> The police must send the fine within 90 days (from the date of the traffic violation) to the rental agency,
–> The rental agency then must send your details within 60 days (required by law) to the police,
–> Once the police have (identified you) received your details, they have another 90 days to send you the fine.
Do the fines mention when the police have received your details? When were these fines sent?
“Jr”.
It will be considered as a minor error, especially considering that “all other details are correct” and that you’ve signed for the registered letters, thus admitting implicitly that you were the person they were addressed to.
“English translation”.
For an Italian resident? 🙂
Pictures? Camera in working order?
Don’t the fines point you to a website where you can see pictures of the back of the car with the license plate?
Remember that you have 60 days from date of receipt to pay the amount requested or to lodge an appeal.
If you wish to send me a scan of the fine(s), you can ask Alex Roe (Italy Chronicles publisher) for my email via this site’s contact system.
Best,
Al
Ron says
Alex, Al and All,
I received a Notice of Payment initial letter from NIVI alleging “driving in a limited traffic area without authorization” and alleging to impose a fine on the car that I had hired. This was in Parma.
Date of Infraction: 2011-09-07
Date of Ascertainment: 2011-11-07
Date of Notice of Payment: 2012-04-30
Asking for payment within 20 days of receipt for 120.29 EUROS to emo/nivi.
The credit card used with the car rental agency is not valid and was replaced shortly after the trip to Italy. It appears that the car rental agency provided my information in 60 days.
In the above Sections in this situation of receiving a “NOTICE OF PAYMENT” the initial communication it seems my options are:
” Pay the fine or fines at the time of the notification. No further action will be taken – but you are not obliged to pay.
Wait until the actual fines arrive – usually a letter you have to sign for. The Official Notification must be sent by registered/ recorded deliver mail.
Write to the agency which sent the notification in an attempt to carry out a form of ‘informal’ appeal. While the agency is not bound to do anything, and cannot cancel the fines, it can contact the municipality in which the infraction took place and bring further information, such as extenuating circumstances, to the municipality’s attention. This might cause the fine or fines to be cancelled or reduced.”
The NOTICE OF PAYMENT is well within the time limit, that is about 250 days in if we accept that the authorities have 360 days from date of infraction. OR 420 days if they take the position that they can tack on an additional 60 days if the Date of Ascertainment is the operative date ( I know it is well argued that this is not the case for non Italy residents.)
I live in Canada and am not sure of:
1. Up to what date under the Notice of Payment could I send the payment asked for in it to Emo/Nivi and have the matter resolved? There is no postal date on the envelop. Only the date the Notice was prepared (April 30, 2012). How long can I wait to think about this and see if any other Notices come in before paying if I decide to go that route?
2. If I wait for a Notification of Violation to come by Registered Mail (I understand that it may or may not come in a form where I am asked to sign for it) will this Notification be for the same amount “owing” as in the Notice of Payment document? Do I have 60 days from date of receipt of the Notification of Violation to pay the amount to Emo/Nivi? I understand I have 60 days from receipt to lodge an appeal but can I just pay the originally asked for amount within 60 days from receipt and count on the matter being resolved definitively?
As a practical matter, given that neither the credit card company, nor the authorities have a valid credit card for me, and, that I am a citizen of and resident in Canada and not planning on returning to Italy soon what is a good approach?
Cheers
Ron
Al says
Hi Ron,
Thanks for reading (at least part of) this really long page before posting.
1 – I believe it’s a wise, prudent decision on your part to wait and see if any other notices of payment arrive in the next few weeks.
How long? The Notice of payment is a “courtesy letter”. As long as you pay, they’ll be grateful! Even after 40, 60, … days.
There’s no way to predict when they’ll send the official Notification.
2 – But it’ll probably be sent before the 360 day time limit will be up in early September.
The official notification is roughly 6 euros (cost of a registered letter to Canada) higher than the unofficial notice of payment. You have 60 days from date of receipt to pay the amount requested or to lodge an appeal.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
If you don’t pay or don’t appeal within 60 days, the amount is roughly doubled.
The authorities or the rental agency won’t charge the fine to your credit card.
Read September 24, 2010 at 6:55 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29100).
Read also February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124).
Best,
Al
TJ says
I’m in the same boat with ‘driving in a limited traffic area without authorization’ in Parma. 2 of them 11 minutes apart on:
Infraction Date: 2011-06-24
date of ascertainment: 2011-09-29
notice of payment: 2011-12-05
i emailed infoemo-en@nivi.it in August 2012 trying to get them to say in writing that the 360 days had passed since the infraction and the matter was closed but got this response:
“According to the Italian Traffic Code the police have 360 days after the date of the violation or identification of the owner of the vehicle within which to notify fines to foreigners. In the event of rented car, the 360 days start as from the date of identification of the holder of the rental agreement at the time of the violation, or from the date of receipt of the personal data sent by the car rental company to the police which was on 29 September 2011.
Therefore the notification will be dated and sent within 360 days from 29th September 2011.
Municipal Police of Parma confirm the fines, your position is still outstanding.”
It’s now September 27th, 2012 and the mailman knocked on our door yesterday trying to ‘deliver’ something. I’m guessing it was the official registered notices. I was at work and my wife didn’t answer the door. I put a hold on our mail from today September 27th until October 1st (as if i was going on vacation) yesterday evening. No mail today, no knock on the door.
Any thoughts on will the mailman keep trying to deliver it next week on October 1st? should i keep ignoring the door? or sign for it October 1st since October 1st is more than 360 days from the notice of ascertainment?
Al says
Hi TJ,
It was pretty gutsy (and naïve) on your part to try and reason with the EMO! 🙂
Once again, for notification purposes, the relevant date is the fine sending date.
According to EMO’s misrepresentation of the law, your fines are legitimate because they will have been SENT less than 360 days after the date of ascertainment.
You could ask your mailman to send the official registered notices back to Italy with an “unable to deliver” sticker on the envelope.
Read May 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30749).
Or you accept the registered letter and lodge an appeal to the Prefect.
Send your registered letter of appeal with proof of receipt to:
Al Prefetto di Parma
Prefettura di Parma
Strada Repubblica, 39
43121 Parma
Do not forget to enclose a readable copy of the Official Notices.
Read closely September 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-34228).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Whatever you do, do not ever pay for these invalid fines!
Best,
Al
Lynda says
I was in Venice, Italy in Sept 2012 and lost my toll road ticket. When we came to the automated payment machine, I didn’t have the 80 euro in cash, and I didn’t get my credit card into the machine in the allotted amount of time to pay the 80 euro fine. So I knew I would have a fee to pay for loosing the toll ticket. I talked to the rental car (thrifty thru Auto Europa) and told them all about it telling them I wanted to pay the fine to make sure I didn’t get billed further. They told me I would be contacted and they would send out a bill in about 60-90 days once it came to the rental car agency. Knowing so many people have had problems in Italy with fines, when I got home from my honeymoon I started emailing and calling all the companies trying to find out how I could pay this debt. NO ONE would help me, and I kept getting placed on hold, or told not to worry about it they would contact me prior to charging me any fines. Well a couple months ago I got charged on my credit card 60 euros or so, so I thought ok, there it is, they have settled it and got my ticket. But I never received notice from the rental car agency. Then yesterday I got my credit card statement and I had a $2408.08 (dollar) charge on it from Auto Europa!!! Are you kidding me!! I tried for months to get this taken care of and was told multiple times that I would get a bill. I’m so angry and I have no idea how to fix this! I call the Italian rental car agency and they have no clue how to help me, and this is obviously the means by which the Italian government rips off tourist while in their country. What can I do, who can I call and how can I get this ridiculous charge taken care of??? Any help PLEASE!! Desperate in Arizona! Lynda
Kemiker says
Hi Linda
These fines are completely out of control! Call your credit card company and have the charge reversed. It is fraudulent without any doubt. The rental company is not entitled to pay any fine on your behalf. The tolling company needs to contact you personally to arrange payment of the toll and any surcharge. The cost cannot already have run up to $2400. Email the rental company and detail your case as above then inform them that they have made a fraudulent charge to your credit card which you have reversed. Ask for a full explanation including pointing out which clause of the rental contract authorises them to pay fines on your behalf. Contact the tolling company and ask for a detailed breakdown of the charges and demand to know why you have not been contacted before a fraudulent charge was made to your credit card. You will need everything in writing. You should not be paying more than the toll plus max EUR 150 surcharge.
Best
Kemiker
Al says
Hi Lynda,
General rental conditions Auto Europa Italy.
– Fines, highway tolls and parking tickets payment:
All fines issued further to a violation of the Street Code and/or missing tolls and/or parking tickets issued during the rental period will be notified to the customer.
Moreover, client will be charged on his credit card for a supplement of € 50,00 plus VAT as handling fee per fine and/or missing toll and/or parking ticket.
The €60 (€50 + VAT) charge is the admin fee for providing your details to the motorway company/debt collection agency.
Rental companies do not charge you for the payment of fines, unpaid toll tickets.
Also FYI :
http://www.autovie.it/cms/data/pages/000172.aspx
Client without a ticket
Should a Client be unable to return the entry ticket due to loss or failure to collect the ticket on entry, the toll payable is calculated according to the law (art. 176/16 Highway Code) from the most distant entry station. However, if the Client has proof indicating the actual entry station, he/she is entitled to pay the corresponding toll.
http://www.autovie.it/cms/data/pages/files/000172_resource2_orig.pdf
http://www.autovie.it/cms/data/pages/files/000172_resource5_orig.pdf
Best,
Al
sally says
Ok I have read some of this but would appreciate some clarification on a fine I recieved. This is my story – I hired a car from europcar in aug 2009 on my way back to the airport in Rome, I entered the motorway and missed the toll booths (not sure how but obviously couldnt do a u turn to go back through) so carried on. When I got to Rome I obviously didnt have the relevent ticket to put in the machine so pressed the button for help, spoke to someone and they lifted the barrier for me to pass.
I recieved my credit card statement and noticed a payment to europcar that i wasnt expecting so called them to find out what it was for. I was told that the £85.25 was to pay for a traffic violation fine so I accepted this and carried on with my life. Then in March 2012 I get a letter from Nivi Credit demanding 62.86 euros off me for a fine for non payment of motorway toll?! I wrote back and told them I had paid it and sent a copy of my credit card statement to prove it. Now in April I have another letter from Nivi Credit saying that the payment of £85.25 that europcar took was not to pay my fine but for “admin fees for electronic notification of traffic violation” Can someone tell me what I should do as I’m not sure what to believe.
Thanks x
Al says
Hi Sally,
Have you read April 12, 2012 at 3:40 pm comment and following comments?
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-33427).
The payment to Europcar could well have been “only” the admin fee for providing your details to the motorway company/debt collection agency.
But the amount of £85.25 (roughly €100) is really high for an admin fee!
Maybe you could call Europcar and ask for clarification on the question?
Best,
Al
J says
Same story here- received a letter from EMO about a supposed “driving in limited traffic area” which was submitted to police 7 months after the supposed violation, and did not receive the letter until 18 months after that date, and 3 months after they said they mailed it. I did not receive a ticket while in Italy, and did not drive on any road marked “limited area.”
I have written two emails to the EMO company, and perhaps I will try to phone the phone number I saw in earlier posts here. (Is that still a valid number?)
Honestly, the treatment I received while in Italy was fairly horrible. I don’t recommend visiting there and I definitely suggest NOT renting a car if you do go. They will take every advantage of you that they can. I mean it was so, so bad.
Thanks for posting this- hopefully something will be done about it all.
-J
Al says
Hi J,
You must have driven into a ZTL (limited traffic area).
I suppose you received the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” sent by regular mail.
Read:
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
– February 27, 2012 at 3:36 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-33131).
The phone number is on the letter you received.
Best,
Al
Kemiker says
Hi Scott
How are you managing to post so far up the blog? There are a number of reasons why EC 861/2007 will not be used by the Italians. While it is for civil and commercial matters according to Article 2, §1 it may not be used for administrative matters. I have it in writing from the chief of police in Florence that these are adminstrative fines for which reason the rights confered by ECHR do not apply (he’s wrong on that one because those rights are in the EC Charter and specifically enshrined in all legislation related to cross-border enforcement). In some countries motoring offences are considered to be criminal offences so these countries would be unlikely to accept claims for motoring offences using this legislation.
Other inconveniences are:
this has to go to court which would expose the lies around the Constitutional Court’s decision 196.
it is a written procedure and the defendant is not obliged to hire a lawyer, which means that it is cheap and far more likely to go to court than under the present system.
A security may not be demanded in advance
The Justice of the Peace is thus removed from the usual procedure since he requires both a security and that the defendant has legal representation.
The time limits involved are very tight (the court needs to issue a judgement within 30 days) which will not suit the Italian system at all. With Florence issuing more than 600 tickets a day, the court system would go from seizure to meltdown (the prefect’s office has already gone into meltdown because of the number of appeals it receives).
Foreign courts would complain about the volume of enforcement notices coming from Italy causing an unacceptable adminstrative burden on their own legal systems.
The defendant must be served with a translation into a language he understands by the court. The EMO act only for the police, not the courts.
Article 16 deals with the award of costs “the court or tribunal shall not award costs to the successful party to the extent that they were unnecessarily incurred or are disproportionate to the claim.” Since know that the costs applied by the EMO are disproportionate (more than EUR80 for a EUR135 fine) they would suffer a reduced revenue.
This legislation could be used to sue Italian rental companies to get the admin fees refunded when people make successful appeals :-). That would be fun.
As to point 2 of your post, you have contested the fine so it doesn’t apply.
Regarding Framework decision 214/2005 if you’re a UK resident then any claim from Italy would be rejected because the UK only accepts its use in criminal matters. The countries using this legislation are doing so almost exclusively for road traffic offences http://eurocrim.jura.uni-tuebingen.de/cms/en/doc/1448.pdf
Scroll down towards the bottom to read the UKs comments.
If you need any help drafting a letter to the embassies you can get my email from Alex.
Best
Kemiker
Kemiker says
To Scott M
Your comment appears way up the blog. If you have been sent a summons in Italian this is not acceptable. You should sent it back and demand it in English – that’s the law. Read my comment http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32814 and follow the links and instructions in that post to get it in the right language. In this way you are on the right side of the law. You do not have to act on any judicial or extra-judicial documents that are in a language you do not understand.
Best
Kemiker
Simon says
Hi Alex, Al and all.
First of all, massive Kudos on a truly excellent and dedicated blog. Legends, both.
I got my first Violation report this week, for a violation dated 24.07.2011. I can only guess that I was in the wrong (who truly knows!). However, the Driver details are all messed up (my incorrect wifes name but she wasn’t driving, her incorrect birthday) and so on.
It is entirely possible that there are more reports to come. (Having read most of the above, it’s unlikely that they’re only gonna try to sting me once !).
Also, as a point of interest, we were following the SatNav instructions provided by our hire car !
My intention is to ignore the report and carry on regardless. Can you give me any idea on the worst that could happen ?
Many regards,
Si
Al says
Hi Simon,
Your wife signed the rental contract.
Art 196,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Solidarity principle) states that as owner of your (private) vehicle, or as holder of the rental agreement of the vehicle, you are considered to be jointly liable with the author of the traffic violation for the payment of the fine.
I guess you got the unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” sent by regular mail.
When you receive the official “Violation of the Highway Code Notice” via registered mail, why don’t you ask your postman to send it back with an “unable to deliver – nobody by that name at this address” sticker on it. 🙂
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
The worst that could happen? You may receive “threatening” letters from a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
Read February 5, 2011 at 10:55 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30020).
Best,
Al
Julie says
Hi Al and Kemiker
Thanks for your comments and expinations, most welcome in putting my mind to rest.
You are right, it didnt occur to me to interpret the phrase ‘Administrative fees for electronic notification of traffic violations’ as meaning that I had only paid for the pleasure of having my details passed on!
I wrongly construed it to mean that the admin fee was the fine itself.
The traffic / autostrada authorities have never been in touch directly and as this first letter was about 15 months after the event and the following one that came last week was just under a year later the whole business it has run out of time anyway.
Thanks for your hep
best
Julie
Julie says
My problem dates from October 2009 when I collected a hire car (eurocar) at Milan airport. We got a bit lost on leaving the airport and pulled into a motorway stop to ask where we were. At some point after leaving we came to a toll barrier which we had trouble understanding but got through and I now dont remember any details at all. A long time later (maybe a year) I received a letter in italian which I didnt understand but appeared to be from the hire firm whose name was placed in bold type and asking for about 60 euros. I dismissed it as a scam, as we didnt go into any towns and I drove well within the limit. Yesterday, almost two and half years later I received a letter in english from a debt collection firm asking for 1318 euros of outstanding debt for a motorway toll. I never got a registered letter, have not been sent photographic evidence, although the dates tally and I was confused by the toll information, and would like to avoid paying this huge sum. I have been to Italy since but not as a driver, maybe I wont till 5 years elapse.
Kemiker says
Hi Julie
It isn’t unheard of to be chased by the firms that operate the payment systems on the autostrada but I have never heard of a successful prosecution of anyone who has failed to pay a toll. Cases brought against motorists in Denmark have been swiftly dismissed. A 60 euro fine for the offence would seem reasonable because it is proportionate to the objective of posing a deterrent to non-payment of the toll. That’s where the credibility stops! How has 60 euros become 1318 euros in the space of 18 months? Utterly ridiculous. If it ever went to court the prosecution would have to demonstrate exactly how the costs had escalated and prove that you had received all relevant correspondance which explained to you, in a language that you understand, the consequences of failing to pay at each juncture. Turning 60 euros into 1318 euros would require a lot of steps/warning letters. I would just forget about it. If they ever contact you again ask for all the relevant information (copies of all warning letters sent together with signed receipts for the registered mail, photographic evidence, etc.). Inform them also that in accordance with UK law, traffic offences must be notified with 2 weeks of the offence, so any prosecution will not succeed – in any case legal precedent is on your side.
Could you please name the collection agency concerned? Also make sure to keep all your documentation, I might want to ask you for it at some stage. We already know what the EMO are up to along with foreign debt collection agencies and we need to know if other organisations are involved so that we can sue the lot of them!
Best
Kemiker
Julie says
Thanks Kemiker
The letter that arrived the other day really threw me, added to that after an initial search through various documents I couldnt find the original letter.
Since then I have had a chance to search again and have found all documents and contrary to what I thought I remembered there was an english translation on the letter which was a ‘fattura’ / invoice not a claim. It states that the payment was made.
The letter was indeed from Europcar and they had used their access to my bank details and taken the payment from me. I had efficiently stored the letter away with the bank statement which shows this transaction, and forgotten all about it till this week.
This evidence puts me in the clear as far as payment is concerned, however it suggests either that through human error (or something else) the fine was not passed on to the appropriate traffic authorities by Europcar or that the autostrada are themselves disorganised and dont know when fines have been payed.
Either way this makes Nivi Credit s.r.i. of via Pordonone, Firenze look opportunistic at the best.
I do not intend to enter into correspondence with them as I do not have any case to answer but it serves as a warning to others.
thanks again
Julie
Al says
Hi Julie,
Are you absolutely sure that the invoice from Europcar was for payment of the toll and not an “admin fee” for providing your contact details to the motorway company/debt collection agency?
Anyway, as you wrote, I would ignore any contact attempts from EMO (Nivi Credit) or from a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
And I would return to Italy whenever I wished.
Best,
Al
Matthew says
I just received two Notice of Payment letters about violations of “Driving in a limited traffic area without authorization.” Each has a fine of 102.09 euros.
The alleged infraction occurred on February 2, 2011. The date these notice of payment letters were sent is February 27, 2012.
I already spoke to someone at the rental agency, who was friendly and helpful but who advised I just pay the fines.
I can’t even find the streets where the violations allegedly took place — for all I know it was where my hotel was located.
Because the Notice of Payment letters were mailed after the 360 day window closed, I’m leaning toward not paying. Good idea?
Matthew says
To add a little more detail — the date of ascertainment is listed as “2011-08-02” which I originally interpreted to mean February 8, 2011. However, now I notice that the date on the top of the letter is “2012-02-27” so I guess the format is Year-Month-Day throughout?
I am pretty certain that these fines were “earned” on my way to my hotel, which I checked on the same day these violations took place. I did not drive the car at any other time except to return it to the rental agency at Roma Termini (God help me if I get more violation notices for the trip from the hotel to train station!!).
I called the hotel, and an agent there said that I could attach a copy of my reservation to the ticket appeal, although he said it “probably wouldn’t work.”
To be honest — this experience and a few others has soured me on Italy a bit, and I probably won’t be going back anytime soon!
Al says
Hi Matthew,
“I guess the format is Year-Month-Day throughout?” Right!
The two unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” dated February 27, 2012 are already outside the 360 day limit!
– Wait a few weeks/months for the official “Notification of Violation of the Highway Code” sent via registered mail.
– Appeal to the Prefect of Rome within 60 days.
Read:
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
– November 10, 2010 at 4:46 pm (appeal template for multiple fines) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29406).
– February 27, 2012 at 3:36 pm comment and the two following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-33131).
Best,
Al
Russell says
EMO didn’t take long to reply to my email pointing out the City of Romes interpretation of the date of ascertainment is wrong. Its this a bluff? EMO telling the Municipal Police of Rome that they have got the law wrong! Can’t even claim that it was lost in the transalation, as the statement is in Italian. Someone who understands Italian might want to give us a translation of the links to Italian Ministry of Transport and Automobile Club d’Italia.
———————————————
Dear Mr Russell ,
please be aware that Municipal Police of Rome have already been informed that this sentence written on their official website is wrong.
As provided by the Italian Ministry of Transport website (http://www.mit.gov.it/mit/site.php?p=normativa&o=vd&id=1&id_dett=204) and by the Automobile Club d’Italia
(http://www.aci.it/sezione-istituzionale/al-servizio-del-cittadino/codice-della-strada/titolo-vi-degli-illeciti-previsti-dal-presente-codice-e-delle-relative-sanzioni/art-201-notificazione-delle-violazioni.html)
“per i residenti all’estero la notifica deve essere effettuata entro trecentosessanta giorni dall’accertamento.”
It means that Municipal Police is legally able to send a fine abroad within 360 days from the ascertainment date. In your case, from the day that the car rental company have sent your details to the Municipal Police. Your car rental company have provided your personal details on the 21st of February 2011, therefore Municipal Police’s communication dated 15th of February 2012 was sent just within the aforementioned deadline.
———————————————-
Kemiker says
Hi Russell
I’ll avail myself of the opportunity to chip in here. While you’ve got a rapport going with the EMO could you do me a favour and cut&paste this into an email back to them.
It is not within the remit of the EMO to interpret the law. They represent the police in the municipality of Rome and if the police say it is 360 days from the date of the violation then that is what they must adhere to.
The constitutional court was absolutely clear in its decision 198/1996 that there are 2 legal provisions, one for Italian residents and one for foreign residents. These are described clearly at the end of section 2 and in section 3 of the decision. Section 5 describes why 150 days is the maximum tolerable limit for notification when balancing the needs of the recipient to be able to prepare a defence (by still having some recollection of the circumstances) and the time required for administrators to get the offender’s name and address, and also mentions that modern technology has helped to speed up this process (note the limit has now been reduced to 90 days). Section 6 notes that it has been normal practice for the time limit to start from the date at which the authorities begin to look into the matter noting that this meant it could extend beyond the “ample but rigid” time limit allowed to notify foreigners (by inference this again means that the limit runs from the date of the offence for foreigners, not from when the police decide to look into it. And of course they cannot identify a foreigner before they begin to look into the case!!! So there can be absolutely no doubt that the time limit cannot first begin to run from the date of identification). Notwithstanding, section 6 goes on to describe this practice as illegitimate and specifies that the time limit for Italians begins on the day when the authorities are able to identify the offender by virtue of the fact that their vehicle is registered at the licencing authority, ie the date of the offence! If a foreigner rents a car they are identifiable from the date of the offence by virtue of the fact that the rental company has a contract with their name and address on it. For foreigners driving their own cars, exactly the same applies to them as to Italians, they are identifiable through the national licencing authority concerned, it’s only a question of when the police ask for the information. For Italians the limit is 150 days [now 90] from the date of the offence with the possibility of an undefined extention for subsequent identification if, for instance, the vehicle had been re-registered to someone else in the interim period (which is what the case was centred around).
Given the above, in the case of foreign residents the notification time limit can only be 360 days from the date at which it has been ascertained that an offence has been committed. Identification of foreign drivers in foreign cars will always be subsequent to the date of the offence because they cannot be identified through the Italian driver and vehicle licencing agency, however, they remain identifiable from the date of the offence as long as the vehicle is registered with the relevant licencing agency. This is why an extended notification time peiod is allowed. It gives time for the police to identify the driver through the foreign licencing agency in question. This provides the objective basis for discriminating between drivers of different nationalities and keeps Italian law in compliance with human rights legislation. As mentioned above, foreign drivers of Italian registered rental cars are identifiable from the date of the offence by virtue of the rental contract. For this reason the time limits should be equal for foreign and Italian renters of cars on Italian plates. There is no case for objective discrimination here so applying a 360 day time limit for foreigners is illegal and inconsistent which the constitutional court’s definition of “identifiable”.
By claiming that they have as long as they like to identify a foreign driver and then a further 360 days to issue a notification, the objectivity disapperars and the differing treatment becomes discriminatory on the basis of nationality which is illegal under iternational law. This is irrespective of whether the vehicle is registered abroad or in Italy. Remember also that the court considered 150 days from the date of the offence to be the maximum tolerable, so 360 days must really be pushing it and anything longer than that just cannot be allowable.
All European law requires that cross border enforcement is conducted by “competent authorities”. Given that the municipal police forces and the EMO struggle to understand their own legislation and have absolutely no idea what is required under international law, they can not be described as “competent” for the purposes of cross border enforcement and should be ignored.
See what they say to that!
Best
Kemiker
Al says
Russell,
It is now I who admire your persistence in “confronting EMO about this blatant attempt at persisting with old habits”. 🙂
The links provided simply refer to Article 201,1 (Violations Notification) of the Italian Highway Code which states unequivocally that the 360 day notification time limit (for foreign residents) runs from the date of the traffic violation.
Why? Because, as you very well wrote: “whenever the word ascertainment was mentioned in the legislation it was in association with the traffic incident”.
They’re lying through their teeth!
And I’m willing to bet that they never said anything to the Municipal Police of Rome.
If you wish, you could reply by sending them Decision 198/1996 of the Italian Constitutional Court and kindly asking them for their “interpretation” of the following passages on pages 3 & 4.
Read March 13, 2012 at 2:25 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-33214)
Al
Al says
Hi Russel,
Thanks for the appreciative comment and for reading this page thoroughly before posting.
The legislation is “ambiguous” only for people in bad faith.
Should you contact EMO and confront them…? Been there, done that. 🙂
I’d say only if you wish to waste your time and money.
But, as I’ve already written, you could/should send an email (infoemo-en@nivi.it) to let them know that you have appealed against (fine)/infraction number… with the Prefect of Rome.
It should prevent you from receiving a “last reminder” letter from EMO or possibly “threatening” letters from a debt collection agency established in your country of residence.
Best,
Al (who never jumps to conclusions) 😀
Russell says
Surely EMO is on very thin ice (at least in Rome), persisting with the misleading FAQ on their website:
Q17 According the Italian Traffic Code the police have 360 days after the date of the violation or identification of the owner of the vehicle within which to notify fines to foreigners. In the event of rented vehicles, the 360 days start as from the date of identification of the holder of the rental agreement at the time of the violation, or from the date of receipt of the personal data sent by the car rental company.
When http://www.comune.roma.it/wps/portal/pcr?contentId=NEW145409&jp_pagecode=newsview.wp&ahew=contentId:jp_pagecode
clearly states:
Per i residenti all’estero o per i veicoli immatricolati all’estero il verbale verrà notificato entro 360 giorni dal giorno della violazione.
= For residents abroad or for foreign registered vehicles the report will be notified within 360 days from the date of the violation.
There is a link at the bottom of the article “Invia questo articolo” (Send this article)
If readers click on this, and email to infoemo-en@nivi.it with a copy and paste of EMO’s Q17 FAQ as above they can’t ignore the facts and claim they uphold the “Convention of Strasbourg” as claimed on their about us page (http://www.emo.nivi.it/Chi_Siamo.aspx).
It will only be by exposure and public humiliation that EMO will clean up their act.
If they are forced to acknowledge the correct interpretation of a national law then this will have to apply in other municipalities.
An email to 060606portale@comune.roma.it (in italian) pointing out EMOs inconsistent FAQ might end up on someones desk who realises the implications.
Russell
Russell says
To Al,Alex and Kemiker
Its interesting to have followed these comments and seen how you guys sensed how the authorities have bent the rules to harass tourists into paying up.
I have admire Als persistence in insisting that the date of ascertainment is the date of traffic violation. I must admit I thought the wording was a bit soft and thought Al might have been jumping to conclusions. But the pieces all added up. The extreme period of 360 days was obviously generous compared to the shorter period of 90days for locals suggested that there was already an allowance for identification. A consumer group picked up on the same view. Whenever the word ascertainment was mentioned in the legislation it was in association with the traffic incident. It is surprising that the legislation was allowed to be so ambiguous. In my non legal experience legislation in Australia often has a glossary or addendum defining the key words.
Anyway I am a ZTL offender. Fantastic family holiday in Rome and Umbria July 2010. After a week in Rome hired a car to drive to Umbria. Picked up the car near the main railway station and had to drive back to the hotel to pick up the luggage before our tour to the Italian countryside. On way back to hotel ended up in some back streets thanks to the GPS and that was when the damage was done. Incurred x2 106 Euro fines 4 mins apart on 2nd July 2010.
Received unofficial notice from EMO about a year ago but took no notice of them. Official registered notices received and signed for 15th Feb 2012. Haven’t been able to find any unexplained costs on my credit card from hertz (still looking).
Then saw Al’s Newsflash that the municipality of Rome now interprets the law as it should and the date of ascertainment is the date of traffic violation. Cant make out from the official announcement from http://www.comune.roma.it when this announcement was released but Al noticed it. – Dec 2011.
Yet I have two official documents -dated 15-02-2012 and signed by the officer in charge from the Corpo di Polizia, ROMA CAPITALE demanding payment.
Issuing authority – Municipal police of Rome
Date of infraction – 02-07-2010
Date of ascertainment (date as of the statute of limitation starts running) 21-02-2011
The scam continues despite the fact that the Municipal of Rome is supposed to recognise the 360 day limitation is from the date of the infraction. Why do they persist? This reinforces Als comments about this being revenue driven and scaring foreigners into paying.
I am in the 60 day appeal period and have sent the template appeal letter to the prefect of Rome – registered with proof of delivery. (cost $16).
Should I also contact/email/phone EMO and confront them about this blatant attempt at persisting with old habits and ask what is going on?
Al says
Dear Gaby,
Find yourself another friend who “understands” Italian!
The word “ascertainment” – mentioned 5 times in Art. 201,1, 14 times in all in Art. 201,1 to 5bis – ALWAYS refers to the ascertainment of the traffic violation (by means of a traffic camera, speed radar, …on the day it was committed!).
The concept of “subsequent identification” applies only to Italian residents!!!
Art. 201,1 distinguishes between:
– Italian residents who have to be notified within 90 days (150 days for violations committed before August 13th 2010) from the date of the traffic violation OR AS SOON as they can be identified.
– Foreign residents who have to be notified within 360 days from the date of the traffic violation.
Read February 5, 2011 at 9:33 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30019)
Read October 7, 2011 at 7:22 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-31899)
Read Decision 198/1996 of the Italian Constitutional Court.
http://ricorsimulte.weebly.com/uploads/4/7/2/5/472555/sentenza_corte_costituzionale_10-17062006_nr.198.pdf
Page 3: “Come si nota dal raffronto […] siano stati identificati successivamente.”
Page 4: “si consentirebbe una protrazione […] ai residenti all’estero;”
Excerpt: “WHILE for residents abroad the legislator sets an absolutely insuperable notifying time limit, although determining it in an ample manner (more than twice the one for Italian citizens), for the latter (Italian citizens) ON THE CONTRARY the 150 day time limit starts from the moment the actual offender or the other individuals liable are subsequently identified.”
The copy per e-mail is not an official notification. You haven’t been formally notified.
As I’ve already written, I would stop wasting my time with the EMO.
Al
Gaby P. Opper says
Dear Al,
Thanks again for the maximum detailed explanation.
If I follow your advise I don’t do anything. But how can I reach that EMO cancels the issue?
I live in a European country (Hungary) and would like to return to Italy again and again. I want to avoid that if I somehow meet policemen there they take me to the police station and keep me there till I pay the double amount (or even more) of the original fine.
Regards
Gaby
Al says
Gaby,
The EMO, the Florentine police or Prefecture won’t cancel your fine.
They’re rapacious scumbags with a total disregard for the law when they try to rip off foreign tourists with invalid fines.
As for being arrested, your name would need to be on a national traffic offender register.
Come back to Italy whenever you wish!
Al
Marie Donlevie says
Hi Al, I did write to niti emo and told them about the 360 days from infraction. However, they wrote back to tell me that when it is a rental car, they have 360 days from the date they identify who the renter was. I haven’t received anything other than their regular mail notice – didn’t have to sign anything to receive it, just arrived in my mailbox.
I wrote to the rental car agency to find out when they were contacted, but I’m sure since it was so long ago – almost 2 years – I haven’t heard anything.
Should I wait for the official notification and then fight it? And….are they right about the rental car issue?
Thanks again.
Al says
Hi Marie,
The unofficial notice (“Notice of payment before notification”) is sent via regular mail.
The official notice, sent via registered mail, is headed “Notification of Violation of the Highway Code” and is the only one which mentions that you can appeal to the Prefect or the Justice of the Peace within 60 days.
What date of “ascertainment” (identification) does your notice mention?
Article 201,1 (Violations Notification) states very clearly that the 360 day notification time limit runs from the date of the infraction but the EMO conveniently misreads it as being 360 days from the date of your “identification”.
The concept of “subsequent identification” applies only to Italian residents!!!
Scroll down through some of the comments.
If you have received the unofficial notice, you should certainly wait for the official notification and appeal! I would never ever pay!
Al
Mike says
Does anyone have an update on Cedar Financial efforts? Have there been any negative effects of their collection attempts such as lowered credit score? Please post all you can to see if these guys are just a bunch of nimrods or if they have any teeth at all. Thank you.
I was contacted today about a ticket from 2008. They claim a certified letter was signed for by my ex wife in 2010 but I never heard of it. My feeling is to ignore them but I do worry about my credit.
Al says
Hi Mike,
Don’t waste your time with those nimrods! Just ignore them!
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
Best,
Al
Mike says
I find it interesting that there no accounts of anyone getting hit with any negative consequences of non-payment. It seems that the collections are just a bunch of smoke without fire. Also I understand from you blog that:
1) The Florence issued ticket is issued by the City of Florence and the City Police. Not the state of Italy or State Italian Police.
2) The officials have 365 days to notify you in the US which they fail if you avoid signing for the certified mail.
3) All traffic violations in Italy are invalid after five years anyway.
4) Cedar Financial purchased the debt from the EMO and is simply trying to collect as anything over certain amount is profit to them. It seems they have no enforceable power to hurt your credit or affect you in any negative way other than harassment.
Am I right in all this?
Mike
Al says
Mike,
1) Over 300 Italian municipalities (including Florence) have outsourced the collection of fines to EMO (European Municipality Outsourcing – a division of Nivi Credit Ltd ).
2) 360 (not 365) days from the date of the traffic violation to SEND the official fine by certified mail.
Read February 5, 2011 at 9:09 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30018)
3) The 5-year statute of limitations from the date of the offence is interrupted by any official act relevant to the fine.
Hence usually 5 years from the day they send the official fine by certified mail.
4) Right!
Cedar Financial and Nivi Credit are members of the TCM Group (“unique global alliance of debt collection agencies”). 😉
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Marie Donlevie says
Hello, I received a notice of traffic violation this month – February 2012 – for a violation that took place on April 2, 2010. Almost two years ago. I had already paid for a different violation that took place at the same time, that I was notified of in July 2011. I had no idea there was a 360 day notification law. After reading your column, I did email Nivi Credit and tell them about not hearing from them withing that time limit, we will see what they say. My question is – do they have the right to collect these fines here in the US? And, how can I find that out? I know it has been discussed in your column before, but I couldn’t find an answer to that. Thank you…your information is priceless!
Al says
Hi Marie,
They’ll probably misinform you by claiming that you were “identified” less than 360 days ago!
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Regarding your question, read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
You paid the first invalid fine, do not pay the second one!
Best,
Al
Franco Rubino says
Let me start off by saying how I (we) readers greatly appreciate your input and advise. I am yet another victim of this injustice. I am a Canadian who visited Italy (Rome) and was charged with ART. 7 C. 9/c. 14 – “driving in a limited traffic area without authorization” The date of infraction was 2010-08-09 (Aug 08) and I received registered mail “Violoation of the Highway Code Report” and 2012-01-11 (Jan 11). This clearly exceeds the 360 day rule! Further, the address on this official by the Corpo di Polizia Roma Capitale notice was incorrect. When reviewing my address with the car rental company (document stamped January 20, 2011), I clearly provided them with my correct address. In any event this registered letter was picked up by me at the local postal office. Can you advise me on how to proceed? I have not recieved any communication of this incident prior to January 2012 and according to the letter 60 day appearl window is closing – Thanks and keep well
Al says
Hi Franco,
For notification purposes (360 day rule), the relevant date is the fine sending date.
Check the time stamp on the envelope, the date on the official notification.
I would send the appeal letter (registered with proof of receipt) to the Prefect.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Al Prefetto di Roma
Prefettura di Roma
via IV Novembre 119/A
00187 Roma
“Il sottoscritto___” for a man, “La sottoscritta___” for a woman.
In Italy the date format is (dd/mm/yyyy).
Write “Al Prefetto di Roma… + full address …” also on the appeal letter.
I would also enclose with the letter, not only a readable copy of the official notification but also Decision 198/1996” of the Italian Constitutional Court with the relevant passages highlighted.
http://ricorsimulte.weebly.com/uploads/4/7/2/5/472555/sentenza_corte_costituzionale_10-17062006_nr.198.pdf
Page 3: “Come si nota dal raffronto […] siano stati identificati successivamente.”
Page 4: “si consentirebbe una protrazione […] ai residenti all’estero;”
Write: “Allega: fotocopia del verbale notificato, sentenza Corte Costituzionale 10-17 giugno 1996, n. 198.”
You have until March 11 (Jan 11 + 60 days) to send the appeal letter.
Best,
Al
Franco Rubino says
Al, thanks I have checked the relevand date and time stamp on the envelope and it was January 11, 2012. The date of the infraction was 2010-08-09 (Aug) and the date of ascertainment was 2011-01-20. They appear to try and trick visitors by clearly posting that the “Date of Ascertainment” is the baseline for the stuatue of limitartion starts running – when the actual start date is the “Date of Infraction” – according to my calculation the total days equals 519. Also a problem that I experienced was that they sent the notice to the wrong address, even when it was clearly noted on the rental agency agreement with TradeFleet. I guess I am lucky that our postal system located me, otherwise I would not be able of this notice and hence loose the opportunity to formally appeal.
As a clarification your address for the appeal differs; on the actual form, it states to use the following address:
Al Prefetto di Roma
U.O. Contravvenzioni
Del Comune di Roma
Via Ostiense
131/L
00154, Roma (RM), Italia
Your amazing you even calculated my end date for appeal. On a side note, I understand that you live in Milano, I trust your an ACM supporter!!! We were robbed by the officials against Juve — I hope your not an Inter supporter. In the end what do you think my chances are in winning the appeal?
Al says
Hi Franco,
I’m Al.
Alex Roe is Italy Chronicles publisher and he does live in Milan.
I’ve been answering the comments on this specific page of Alex’s blog since April 2010.
I started signing my comments “Al” realizing too late that people would confuse me with Alex.
They’ve been deliberately misleading foreign traffic offenders for a few years now!
Regarding the address, read September 10, 2010 at 8:42 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-28991)
Who gives a damn whether you win the appeal or not?!?
You’ll never pay! Right? 🙂
Nevertheless, if you’re looking for a little reassurance 🙂 , read also December 4, 2011 at 9:07 pm and December 6, 2011 at 12:15 am comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32279).
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32296).
And, keep in mind that you might never get a reply from the Prefect.
I would also send an email to the EMO (Nivi Credit – infoemo-en@nivi.it) to inform them that you’ve appealed against (fine)/infraction number … with the Prefect of Rome.
It should prevent you from receiving any “last reminder” letter from the EMO.
There seems to be no coordination between the EMO and the Italian Prefectures!
Al
John says
Following a fabulous holiday in Tuscany July 2011, and a daytrip to Florence, we are now the lucky recipients of apparently not one, but two Highway Code Violations from Polizini Municipale, Comune di Firenze.
Both alleged offences took place the same day (20th July 2011). We have already been charged twice! by our credit-card company (for providing our contact details to the authorities) at E36.30 each time). Now we are being charged E76+25.80 for ‘Circulating in a limited traffic area without authorisation…Prot/Acess 111325077’ and another E76+25.80 for ‘Circulating in a lane reserved for means of public transportation only…Prot/Acess No. 111327618’.
We never saw any signs restricting access….and imagine the signs were either not present , confusing or obscured by vehicles etc.. The amount of the fines for such a trivial ‘offence’ seems extortionate and excessive, it adds up to well over £200…We are unconvinced that we committed the offences and would like proof, so intend to ask for a date and time stamped photograph!
Has anyone tried this and received photographs? We will see what happens.
We live in the UK and are seriously considering not visiting Italy…and certainly not Florence any time soon!
Regards
John
Al says
Hi John,
Via EMO’s web site (http://www.emo.nivi.it/) you can consult your file (photographic evidence, fine information, …). Username & password are on the letter you received.
In Italy, for privacy reasons, photographic evidence identifying the offending driver is prohibited. Such pictures are allowed only if taken by laser speed gun and if the traffic offender is pulled up by the police on the spot. Photographs are never attached to the fines. They can be viewed on-line or at the police station.
Read the information at the top of this page and April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment. (http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al (not Alex)
John Hodgson says
Alex and Al
First a word of appreciation for this very useful forum. Its helpful information and level-headed advice are exemplary.
My main reason for posting is to recount my experience (so far) of appealing to the Prefect; and ask for suggestions for my next step.
I fell foul of the Florence ZTR on 17 April 2009 in a hire car. I received my ‘Notice of Payment Before Notification’ in June 2010 (it is dated 28 May – already past 360 days), and my formal violation notice is dated 15 July 2010. I then used the pro-forma letter provided by Al to appeal the fine on the grounds that the allowed 360 days had elapsed. This was posted on 7 August 2010 and followed by a long silence (as you suggested it would be!).
However, I have today received a letter (in English) from the Florence police covering a legal ruling (in Italian) from the Prefect rejecting my appeal, and asking for payment of an increased fine (total now 192 euros).
So far as I can make out the Prefect’s reason for rejection is very vague: “le circostanze esposte non contengono elementi tali da invalidare l’accertamento”, which Babelfish renders as “the exposed circumstances do not contain such elements to invalidate l’ assessment”.
l am in two minds how to proceed. I suspect the mature choice is to cut my losses and pay up, but I am also affronted by the (apparent) bland contradiction of a clear cut case. It adds insult to injury that the Prefect’s own response to the appeal has ignored the time limits on this process!
Today’s letter says I have 60 days from the notification date (10 Feb according to postmark) to appeal to the Florence Justice of the Peace. Should I go down this route? Could I do so in English and without legal representation?
Any thoughts from yourselves or other posters would be welcome.
Thanks and best wishes
John
Al says
Hi John,
The mature choice is to send them packing!!!
1) As you know, your formal violation notice was sent well over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation.
2) Furthermore, as you wrote, the Prefect didn’t issue the payment injunction within the 210 day time limit or didn’t notify it within 150 days after its adoption.
Read May 6, 2011 at 6:37 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30786)
3) If you’re right – and that’s the only “explanation” they give – then, they do not go into the merit of the issue itself. Which is “understandable”, seeing that they’re dead wrong about the 360 day notification time limit.
But a Prefect can decide to reject your appeal, ignoring completely your arguments. This does not constitute sufficient cause for invalidating the fine when you appeal against his decision before the Justice of the Peace.
Why? Because you can still present these same arguments to the Justice of the Peace!
That’s Italian “Justice” for you! 🙂
For all these reasons, you can appeal to the Justice of the Peace of Florence within 60 days from the date you received the Prefect’s payment injunction (sent by registered mail?).
But you’d have to do so in Italian. The Justice of the Peace will “demand” that you pay 37€ beforehand and ask you to attend the hearing (in 2013?).
You can still appeal without paying the 37€, without legal representation, without attending the hearing and see what comes out of it. The Justice of the Peace should still rule on your appeal.
But is it worth the hassle?
I get the distinct impression that there’s a collusion between the Florentine police and Prefecture to disregard the Law and rip off foreign traffic offenders.
Read December 6, 2011 at 12:15 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32296)
Best,
Al
Kemiker says
Hi John
I would write to the Italian ambassador immediately and complain that these people are making the law up as they go along. Include all details of your case and quote the relevant articles of Italian law. The prefect must provide a reasoned response within a given timeframe otherwise your appeal is deemed accepted. The response fulfills neither of these criteria and now they are wasting your time and money trying to extract cash from you illegally. You should insist that the ambassador contacts the prefecture to formally have your fine cancelled which should be communicated to you in English within 14 days. I would also write to the British embassy in Rome and the Consulate in Florence detailing your complaint. If you need help drafting any of this you can get my email from Alex.
Best
Kemiker
george apostolopoulos says
hello. i have a problem with Comune di Milano Polizia Locale.
i was alegedly caught violating a bus lane in milan 2010-07-25. they say they ascertained it “was me” 2010-10-26 and i received the letter 2011-27-10 (the envelope says this). i didn t searched this earlier cause in greece we ignore these stuff. but today i woke up with an anxiety about this matter. as i read above i should have send an appeal within two months from getting this notification. what do i do now? please conssider that i don t speak english or italian and my more literate brother is writing this. so how could i understand what this letter of milan means.
george apostolopoulos says
oh i forgot. it starts like a normal violation of the highway code but it ends with: “important: the police department has delegated Nivi credit s.r.i. div. european municipality outsourcing, Via o. de pordenone 14-20 50127 firenze- italy to carry out all the operations relative to this case with contract Procura Speciale.”
Al says
Hi George,
What do you do now? Nothing!
As you wrote, it’s too late to appeal.
Anyway, your fine was invalid! It was sent over 360 days after the date of the traffic violation.
Best,
Al
george apostolopoulos says
i have some leads with the greek post office as i am a stamp collector. would you think using them has any meaning or am i covered either way? thx for the very fast answer and i hope you do well in every aspect of your life. if by any chance you come to greece apostolopoulos.ee@gmail.com is my email address
thx again
trully indebted
george
Gaby P. Opper says
Dear Al
My case is similar.
I circulated with a rented car in the limited traffic area in Florence on 2010-09-30.
The car renting company informed the police that I was the driver in December. After that at the and of January 2011 I received (with ordinary post) a letter dated 2011-01-21 from Nivi Credit Srl. with the title “Notice of Payment” about 105,95 EUR. At the end of the letter it was mentioned the “The present notice is not a Notificationof violation and therefore it permits the receiver to make the due payment in amicable circumstances.”
I did not pay but was waiting for the official Notification from the Police.
Few days ago I received a new letter dated 2012-01-30 from Nivi Credit Srl. The title of the letter is “Payment deadline reminder” and the letter tells me that
“on the 2011-10-27 you have been notified of a fine issued by the Council of CORPO DI POLIZIA MUNICIPALE DI FIRENZE for a totel of € 110,75 to be paid within 60 days from the date of receipt. Then penalty for non payment within the time limit is the double of the sum as provided for by the article 202 of the Italian Highway code.”
Unfortunately (or luckily?) it did nor receive the above mentioned letter that was probably the official Notification. Imaginable that it was sent but I did not stay at home for several weeks in October and November.
What should I do now?
If the 360 days time limit starts with the date of the infraction the not received official Notification was issued late. If however the 360 days time limit starts with the date when the police got informed about the data of the driver the Notification was issued probably still in time. Does it matter in this case that I did not receive it? Will it be considered as delivered even if it did not come to my hands?
Best thanks
Al says
Dear Gaby,
Same answer as the one I gave to Scott.
Read January 24, 2012 at 12:40 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32744)
Best,
Al
Kemiker says
Hi George
Just ignore it. ECHR requires the fines to be sent in a language that you understand. You are not obliged to get a translation, or even ask for one. If anybody ever comes after you quote the European Convention on Human Rights, Article 6 §3a. You can find it in Greek here:
http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyres/E4317264-DB27-42FE-873E-1ECCACABB045/0/GRE_CONV.pdf
If you are feeling funny you could write back to the EMO “No English, no Italian, ONLY GREEK” 🙂
When the official notification comes, the registered one with the yellow receipt on it, you must refuse to accept it on the grounds that you do not understand it and you are exercising your rights in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 1393/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 13 November 2007 on the service in the Member States of judicial and extrajudicial documents in civil or commercial matters . This is the law that they are using in order to be able to claim that what they are doing is legal. You can find it here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32007R1393:EN:HTML
or here in Greek.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32007R1393:EL:HTML
Scroll down the page to Annex II and find the declaration in Greek:
Το συνημμένο έγγραφο σας επιδίδεται ή κοινοποιείται σύμφωνα με τον κανονισμό (ΕΚ) αριθ. 1393/2007 του Ευρωπαϊκού Κοινοβουλίου και του Συμβουλίου περί επιδόσεως και κοινοποιήσεως στα κράτη μέλη δικαστικών και εξωδίκων πράξεων σε αστικές ή εμπορικές υποθέσεις.
Έχετε δικαίωμα να αρνηθείτε την παραλαβή της πράξης εφόσον δεν είναι συνταγμένη ή δεν συνοδεύεται από μετάφραση σε γλώσσα την οποία κατανοείτε ή στην επίσημη γλώσσα ή σε μία από τις επίσημες γλώσσες του τόπου επίδοσης ή κοινοποίησης.
Εάν επιθυμείτε να ασκήσετε αυτό το δικαίωμα, πρέπει είτε να δηλώσετε την άρνηση παραλαβής κατά τη χρονική στιγμή της επίδοσης ή κοινοποίησης απευθείας στο πρόσωπο που επιδίδει ή κοινοποιεί την πράξη, είτε να την επιστρέψετε εντός μιας εβδομάδας στη διεύθυνση που αναφέρεται κατωτέρω, δηλώνοντας ότι αρνείστε την παραλαβή της.
the English version reads as follows:
“The enclosed document is served in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 1393/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council on the service in the Member States of judicial and extrajudicial documents in civil or commercial matters. You may refuse to accept the document if it is not written in or accompanied by a translation into either a language which you understand or the official language or one of the official languages of the place of service.
If you wish to exercise this right, you must refuse to accept the document at the time of service directly with the person serving the document or return it to the address indicated below within one week stating that you refuse to accept it.”
Best
Kemiker
george apostolopoulos says
well to answer to this, i have frequent letters from abroad, because i buy stamps on ebay. so i couldn t know that it was the fine 🙂 so i was stupid enough not to say “recipient unknown” and to let them trying to find me. and i think that is the better solution.. but i thought of it 5 mins after getting and signing the paper.. anyways, i really really thank you too, and i hope you come to greece to let me repay my knowledge about my country and extend my famous greek hospitality
Nick Scott says
Came across this great site when I searching for time limits for these fines. I have received three invoices from AVIS charging me the administration fee for passing on my details to the police. Two of them are for the infamous Restricted Traffic Zone and one for No Parking which, incidentally, I cannot understand as I was always very careful with parking and never received a ticket. I have not as yet had any notification from the Italian police. The three “offences” were between the 1st and 6th September and I have just received these invoices although they are dated from the 13th to the 28th of December. I have emailed AVIS to supply me with the dates of the requests and the dates that they supplied the information. What I haven’t quite understood from the information here is if there is a time limit for the police to request the information from the hire company. If the dates of the invoices they have sent me are at all close to the dates that the information was requested they are all over 90 days. From this piece in the information above “Al states that the time limit for the sending out of notices to drivers who are not resident in Italy is 360 days from the date the offence was committed – not, as had been my previous interpretation, 360 days, plus the 60 days which is often used to ‘identify’ the driver of a hire/rental car.” Is the 60 days to identify the driver a time limit?
Thanks
Nick
Al says
Hi Nick,
There’s no concept of “subsequent identification” for foreign residents.
In order to be validly notified, the official (registered) notification (from the Italian police) must be sent out within 360 days from the date of the infraction.
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al
Nick Scott says
Hi Al
Thanks for the reply. Does this mean that had an Italian national been the hirer of the vehicle then they would have already been out of time as the didn’t request the details till after 90 days?
Al says
Hi Nick,
It all depends when the police sent the fines (requesting the details) to AVIS. Before early September + 90 days?
You’d have to ask AVIS to send you the “original fines” (written in Italian) they received from the Italian police.
Al
Scott W says
Hi,
I appreciate all of the great advice. I apologize if you have covered this exact question and I’ve tried to find the answer in all of the posts, but got bogged down after the first 50 or so. I’ve just gotten a Payment Deadline Reminder for a speeding ticket. The date of the infraction is 9/16/2010 and the date of ascertainment is 10/18/2010. They are claiming that on 10/13/2011 I was notified of the fine and have 60 days to pay or appeal. I never received any notification, nor did I sign for anything. I travel quite a bit and after returning from a trip and picking up my mail, I did have a notice for a letter that I had to sign for. But because I came back a couple of weeks after it arrived, they had sent the letter back. So my question is, where do I stand if they had sent out an official letter, but I wasn’t here sign for it, does it still fall within the 360 days? I find it interesting that they claim that the letter went out at exactly 360 days. I do go to Italy once or twice a year and I do rent cars. I have been back twice since they claim that I got the ticket, with no problem, but I can’t afford anything happening in the future because I lead groups. I also don’t want to pay a $350 ticket if I don’t have to. Any suggestions as to my options, can I appeal on those grounds, also, it is past the 60 days from when they said they notified me, can I still appeal?
Thanks
Scott
Al says
Hi Scott,
Your fine is invalid because it was sent out over 360 days after the date of infraction!
I do believe that they sent you the official (registered) notification dated 10/13/2011.
But they don’t have a signed receipt from you, which means that you haven’t been formally notified.
They do not bother to send a second official (registered) notice.
Instead, you receive an unregistered “last reminder” letter, and they then sell your “debt” to a US collection agency called Cedar Financial.
Read February 19, 2011 at 9:24 pm comment and following comments.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-30124)
Don’t waste your time with Cedar Financial. Just ignore them!
And nothing will happen if you return to Italy and rent cars.
Best,
Al
Scott W says
Thanks Al, this has been a wealth of information. It looks like I have dodged one bullet, now I’ll wait to see if I get the other shot from Cedar Financial. I guess it’s a good thing that I have caller Id and don’t answer the phone. It will be interesting to see posts of what others have to say about their dealing with them. Thanks again for such a great resource!
Scott
Gaby P.Opper says
Dear Al,
Thanks for your reply.
Today I received from EMO a copy of the official notification. (the original did not reach me)
Its date is 2011-10-27 and as “date of ascertainment” is given 2010-11-02 as if this was the date when the police received my personal date from the car rental company. Just 359 days are between the two dates. The infraction itself happened on 2010-09-30. From which date starts the period of 360 days?
Could you please tell me whether the Italian “Highway Code” is somewhere available on the web in English?
Best regards
Gaby
Al says
Gaby,
– Article 201,1 (Violations Notification) states very clearly that the 360 day notification time limit runs from the date of the infraction but the EMO conveniently misreads it as being 360 days from the date of your “identification”.
– Not to my knowledge.
Your fine is invalid! Don’t waste your time with the EMO! Or with Cedar Financial, if they contact you in the future!
Al
Gaby P. Opper says
Dear Al
I could find a friend who speaks Italian and explained me the contents of Art 301, 1.
Unfortunately the text in paragraph 1 (see below) uses for the date from that the 360 days time limit starts the words indentification (identificatione) and accertainment (accertamento) of the person who made the traffic violation.
Qualora l’effettivo trasgressore od altro dei soggetti obbligati sia identificato successivamente alla commissione della violazione la notificazione può essere effettuata agli stessi entro novanta giorni dalla data in cui risultino dai pubblici registri o nell’archivio nazionale dei veicoli l’intestazione del veicolo e le altre indicazioni identificative degli interessati o comunque dalla data in cui la pubblica amministrazione è posta in grado di provvedere alla loro i d e n t i f i c a z i o n e. Per i residenti all’estero la notifica deve essere effettuata entro trecentosessanta giorni dall’a c c e r t a m e n t o.
If I accept his translation and explanation we both have to reconsider the situation. The notification on the 359th day from the identification is still within the time limit. The only question in my case is that if I did not receive it by registered post but only a copy per e-mail some three months later should I consider this copy as if I would have been really and officially notified. Or to refuse telling that it is very nice and the date is within the time limit but sorry it is not a way of offical notification so I can’t accept it.
Best regards
Gaby
Linda S says
Hi
My husband is yet another of the unfortuate drivers to fall foul of driving rules in Florence. We have received a Violation of the Highway Code notice – (which we did not sign for) for a speeding infraction on 01 09 2010, ascertainment 14 12 2010, posted on 24 11 2011. It is from emo and demands 208.60 euro.
I have read masses of the posts on this website and the appeal to the prefect seems worth a try. However after all the reading I seem to have gone word blind as I can’t see where the suggested letter of appeal is?! Please can someone direct me to the right place. My husbands view is that he won’t set foot in Italy for the next 5 years, but that would be a shame!
Thanks
Linda
Al says
Hi Linda,
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
You received the Violation of the Highway Code Notice at the end of November.
Remember that you have 60 days to appeal to the Prefect. Mention a “suitable” date on the appeal letter.
Read December 16, 2011 at 1:27 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32394).
Send Decision 198/1996 of the Italian Constitutional Court with the appeal letter.
Send an email to the EMO (infoemo-en@nivi.it) to inform them that you’ve appealed against (fine)/infraction number … with the Prefect of Florence.
Best,
Al
Andrew Yeomans says
Hi, Thanks for all the helpful advice!
I’ve got a couple of questions which I don’t think are covered above.
I recently received a “Violation of the Highway Code report” for a speeding violation in Florence in a hire car which occurred September 2010. (Which I might have committed, I was near the area at the time, but am not sure if I was at the exact spot.)
a) The letter refers to photographic proof on http://www.poliziamunicipale.fl.it, however after entering details on that site I just get “Sono visibili i verbali spediti dal 31/03/2011 al 29/12/2011” (“You can see the reports sent from 31/03/2011 to 29/12/2011”). It seems dubious to me if such a notification is valid without such proof?
b) In any case, the violation report was received well after 360 days of the violation so I am planning to ask EMO to cancel the penalty, or to appeal to the Prefect. However I also received a form for driving licence details. I’m wondering whether I have to fill this in anyway?
It’s a bit odd – it looks like this would be the form sent to the rental company. But I naturally don’t want to incur a penalty for non-return of a form. The wording is below (abbreviated):-
“Form enclosed to report number [xxx] issued on [xxx] for the violation/s of the art.8 of C.D.S. sent on [xxx]
The violation of the aforementioned report involves the deduction of n.3 penalty points from the licence of the actual driver at the moment of the infringement. In case of failure of identity, the owner or one of the other persons referred to art. 196 Cd.S must communicate to the Police within 60 days from the request, the personal data and details of the driving licence of whoever was driving the vehicle at the moment of the infringement. If the owner turns to be a legal person such obligations are due by a legal representative of the delegate.
As per above you are kindly asked to return the form duly filled and signed within 60 days from the receipt of the notification of the above mentioned report to [xxx] …
…The information should be communicated even if there is the intention to lodge an appeal to the Prefect or to the Justice of Peace. …
If the owner or one of the other persons … omit to provide the requested information .. not enough to trace the driver of the vehicle, is then subject to an administrative sanction from Euro 269,00 up to Euro 1075,00 ….”
Now they already have my driving licence details off the rental company, so I can’t see why they need it again, unless it’s to allow me to claim someone else was driving? What do you think?
Thanks,
Andrew
Kemiker says
Hi Andrew
Send the appeal as above. The Italian police can not put points on a UK driving licence so I would just return the form with your name on it and the issuing country of your licence. Add that the exercise is superfluous because the fine is invalid due to a) lack of evidence, b) the time limit and c) the fact that you hold a foreign licence. You have already been identified as a foreign resident otherwise you would have heard from the police directly and not the EMO. So I would also ask them to stop wasting your time.
Best
Kemiker
Al says
Hi Andrew,
“It’s a bit odd – it looks like this would be the form sent to the rental company”
Because, on http://news.comune.fi.it/autovelox/, you must enter the notice number of the fine sent to the rental company (presumably between 31/03/2011 and 29/12/2011).
– Fine/report number (only the number without letter(s) and year)
– Infraction date: “xx/09/2010”
– Licence plate
Your case is the same as Neil’s.
Read January 24, 2011 at 8:42 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-29876)
They have your driving licence details because you were the holder of the rental agreement but someone else (mistress,…? 😉 ) might have been driving at the time of the violation.
Anyway, the 3 point deduction applies only in Italy.
Fill in that form, sign it and send it REGISTERED with proof of receipt.
The address mentioned is: Polizia Municipale del Comune di Firenze, N.O. Verbali e Notifiche, Via delle Cascine 9, 50144 Firenze. Right?
The violation report was SENT well after 360 days of the violation!
No use in asking EMO to cancel the fine!
Scroll down through the last comments (since… September 2011).
Send the appeal letter (registered with proof of receipt) to the Prefect.
Read November 9, 2011 at 3:15 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32124)
Read December 18, 2011 at 5:21 pm comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-32410)
Best,
Al
Al says
Sarah,
You used the same car, but was the 2009 or 2010 ticket also for a traffic violation committed in Florence? Or in another city?
Article 201,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Violations Notification) CLEARLY mentions the word “ascertainment” in reference to the date of the infraction.
==> The ascertainment of the traffic violation by means of a traffic camera, speed radar, …on the day it was committed!
Hence date of ascertainment = date of the infraction!
But the EMO purposely mislead foreign traffic offenders and claim that the word “ascertainment” can also refer to the ascertainment of your identity (the date the police receive your details from the rental company).
Moreover they seem to be conveniently pushing the “identification date” back further!
I know the Poste italiane slip was INSIDE the envelope. 🙂
You were perfectly clear the first time. They were negligent, that’s all!
Send an email to the EMO (infoemo-en@nivi.it) to inform them that you’ve appealed against (fine)/infraction number … with the Prefect of Florence.
Al
Joe says
Dear All,
I read on a particular website that “The recipient of the ticket has 60 days to pay or appeal. If you don’t pay, the amount is doubled. Italians usually pay and then appeal” http://www.initaly.com/travel/avoid_tickets.htm
What are the chances of paying the traffic fine and appeal later with the hope of receiving a refund??
Is this realistic?
Thanks
Joe
Al says
Hi Joe,
“What are the chances of paying the traffic fine and appeal later with the hope of receiving a refund??” 😀 😀
Appeal to the Prefect
If you pay the fine, you admit your guilt. An appeal is then considered inadmissible.
If you don’t pay or don’t appeal within 60 days, the amount is roughly doubled.
Appeal to the Justice of the Peace
You are required to pay beforehand 37€, you are supposed to attend the hearing (or get someone to attend),…
If you don’t pay the fine within 60 days and loose the appeal, the amount is roughly doubled.
In your letter of appeal you can ask the Justice of the Peace to suspend the payment pending the result of the hearing. However, he must rule (accept) on the suspension before the 60 days expire. Good luck with that!
So, you pay the reduced fine and wait for the hearing. Remember! Patience is a virtue! 🙂
If you loose the appeal, the Justice of the Peace can order you to pay the reduced fine, the fine doubled or any amount in between.
If you win… you then ask (politely) to be refunded of the amount of the reduced fine, cost of proceedings… And don’t forget the 37€! Swiftly, if possible!
Again! Good luck with that! 🙂
Al
Al says
Sarah,
Wait!!!
It does not make sense to send registered letters to both the Justice of the Peace of Firenze and the Prefect of Firenze!
First answer the following question: Do the two letters mention a “date of ascertainment “?
(Date at which the police receive the driver’s details from the rental company)
There’s also a “ZTL notturna” (night-time limited traffic zone) in Florence
Usually from the end of May to the end of September, Thursday through Saturday, 11pm to 3am. Time of your infractions: 11:24 pm and 00:07 am.
The yellow Poste italiane slip is the proof of receipt (registered mail) which should be detached from… the back of the envelope and returned to Italy with your signature on it. 🙂
In Italy, for privacy reasons, photographic evidence identifying the offending driver is prohibited. Such pictures are allowed only if taken by laser speed gun and if the traffic offender is pulled up by the police on the spot. Photographs are never attached to the fines. They can be viewed on-line or at the police station.
Al (not Alex Roe – Italy Chronicles publisher)
Sarah says
Al,
You caught me right before I left for the post office so I will only send the letter to the Perfect. I did not sign the Poste italiane slip because it was INSIDE the envelope since it did not arrive registered mail.. I thought it seemed strange as it looked like our receipt for registered mail that we use in the USA but since it was inside and not outside and was in my mailbox I thought I must be mistaken. Maybe I will just hang on to it for now. It only has my husbands name and address on it with the box Raccomandato checked, a couple of numbered sequences after No invio and a return address to the Corpo Di Polizia Municipale Di Frienze. There is a place for a signature but I was not asked by my postal carrier to sign it since it was not on the outside of the envelope. Very strange. I will wait to hear back from the Perfect (if ever) and hope they follow the letter of the law:)
As always I very much appreciate your knowledge and advice.
Sarah
Sarah says
Dear Al,
How sneaky that they would put the date of ascertainment at 11-30-2010 and send me this letter dated 11-24-2011. So they already had my info since they sent me a ticket in 2009 or 2010 (honestly I can not remember. I just recall thinking that it had been a very long time since we had actually been in Italy) but could not find our info again until November of 2011. That is quite amazing. I wish now I had kept that ticket:( We came back from Italy in April of 2008 so what is up with the date of ascertainment? Do I understand correctly that the date of ascertainment is the date of the infraction not the date they receive information from the rental agency?
Confused more than ever,
Sarah
Sarah says
And FYI in case you were wondering we used the same car the entire time we were in Italy so it is not like they had to go hunting for our info.
Sarah
Kemiker says
Sarah, what is the date of the infraction, it’s directly above the date of ascertainment? Which rental company did you use – you need to contact them and find out exactly when your credit card was charged for these offences. Check your credit card bills. The EMO are clearly fabricating the evidence. Also you should email the EMO and let them know that the date of ascertainment is incorrect. According to the law it is the same as the date of the infraction for foreigners. The municipality of Rome correctly applies the law, the municipality of Florence does not. The EMO acts for both municipalities so it knows what the law is. Remind them that even using Florence’s incorrect interpretation of the law, the date at which you were subsequently identified as the driver of the vehicle during that time period cannot be later than the date of ascertainment from the first offence which you have already paid! The information sent to the police contains the rental period, so you had been identified as the driver during that time period when the first police enquiry was made. The police already had the information at hand when the remaining fines were issued. Finally demand that the fines are cancelled on these grounds. Please keep all documentation (including envelopes with date stamps) and please don’t write anything to the Italians without getting advice here first – you’ll end up burning your legal avenues. Your case is the most disgraceful of all those posted on this blog and we need to use it to put a stop to this. If the EMO won’t cancel the fines we need to make representations to the relevant embassies.
Best
Kemiker
Sarah says
My husband abd I visited Italy in April of 2008. We rented a car in Rome and drove all the way to the Northern border of Italy. We received a ticket somettime in 2010 which we did not pay as it stated we “circulated on roads reserved to other vehicles and indicated by traffic signs”. Of course they were written in Italian and of course the rental company failed to mention this. We had already cancelled the credit card we had used to rent the car as it had been misplaced or something so we really did not think anything would come of it. Then the phone call came 6 months later from an American collection company hired by the Italian government, so we were told. If we did not pay the ridiculous fee of some now $600.00 dollars it would be reported to the American credit agencies. They offered to reduce the fee in half which we paid just to end the mess and continued hassle. Assummed (yes I know that just makes an ass out of you and me) it was a finished deal but NO. The first week of December 2011 we received 2 more tickets for infractions on the same day at the same place, one at 7 AM and one at the exact same place at 11:24 PM for the exact same thing. They came in our regular mail and of course had no photo enclosed. I have no intention of returning to Italy anytime in the near or distant future. This feels like a scam made by a country who everyone now knows is in desperate need of money! We are obviously way beyond the 360 day time limit and Iwe would not even consider paying these except for those pesky collection agency folks who after reading these posts we are thinking were not even allowed to collect. Thoughts, suggestions? The letter was dated 11/24/2011 so I have a few more weeks left to respond if necessary.
Al says
Hi Sarah,
“They offered to reduce the fee in half which we paid just to end the mess and continued hassle.”
I’d rather not comment! 🙂
Are the letters you received the first week of December the unofficial notices (“Notice of payment before notification”) or the official notices (“Notification of Violation of the Highway Code”)?
The official notice mentions that you can appeal to the Prefect of … or the Justice of the Peace of … within 60 days …
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584).
Best,
Al (not Alex)
Sarah says
Hi Al,(not Alex):)
Thanks for responding. They are the Violation of the Highway Code but they were not sent registered mail. Just arrived in my mailbox. I was able to obtain the pictures on the Florence website. All you can see is the license plate and headlights of the car. Through my search on the web I found that Florence prohibits cars without permits from entering the city from 7:30 AM – 7:30 PM. The time of our infractions as noted on the tickets was 00:07:00 and 23:24:00. Coupled with being outside of the 360 day notification period and the prohibited time frame I am feeling like this is all just WRONG! What to do? I also received 2 yellow Posteitaliane with the letter of violation written totally in Italian. They were inside the envelopes and I have no idea what they are. I am willing to call, write, whatever if you think I have a leg to stand on.
Thanks,
Sarah
Kemiker says
Hi Sarah
Do not pay anything. It is totally unacceptable that these things are turning up after 3 years and it’s only because you paid the first one. If they are in Italian then they are not valid in any way. Don’t worry about debt collectors for now, they are lying, they do not, and may not, act on the behalf of the Italian Government. If you hear anything to that effect from debt collectors ask for the court order mandating payment signed by an Italian judge together with all communication from the Italian Government. Inform them also that they are somewhat premature in requesting payment as you are still waiting to exercise your right to a court hearing as afforded to you by:
– ECHR Article 6 §1 and
– the Italian constitution Article 24 §1.
If the Italian Government had a problem with you they would not contact you through a debt collection agency!! It would be through the relevant embassies who now need to be contacted as a matter of urgency to bring this sorry mess to an abrupt stop.
Best
Kemiker
Sarah says
Kemiker,
Good to know. Just to cover every base I am sending today a registered letter written in English and Italian to the Justice of the Peace of Firenze and the Prefect of Firenze. I am within my 60 days and I WILL NOT give them any excuses. Wonder if I will ever hear back!:)
Thanks,
Sarah
Al says
Hi Jon,
You should reclaim the admin fee from Avis and provide them with a copy of the receipt.
And you can also ask your credit card issuer to reverse the admin charge as unsubstantiated because, as you rightly write, there was no need to supply your details to the authorities for a fine which was already paid!
Avis should ask the Italian police to be refunded for wasting their