One of my most visited and commented posts is about traffic violations which those touring sunny Italy by car have collected.
If you read the post (link below), and then wade through a few of the comments, you will note that the name of a certain Italian town famed for it’s leaning erection, otherwise known as Pisa, comes up rather often. It appears as though just about every person heading into Pisa by car returns to his or her country of origin after having, generally, had a spanking good holiday in Italy, only to find fond memories shattered by the appearance of an innocent recorded deliver letter which tumbles innocuously though the ex-happy holiday maker’s letter box.
Within said letter, there will be a fine. More often than not, this fine will relate to driving into Pisa’s restricted traffic zone. This, by now infamous on Blog from Italy, traffic zone is littered with cameras which take a neat little snapshots of the encroaching vehicles. After the photo, a process, albeit quite a slow one it has to be said, is then set in motion. This process culminates in the dropping of said fine through a letter box in some distant foreign land, usually around a year or so after the happy holiday has ended.
It’s scam, many have been shouting, up to and including my wicked self. I’ve even been accused of being in league with the naughty Pisa restricted traffic zone mafia. Perish the thought. Well, I’ve uncovered an interesting gem of information with regard to Pisa. And it’s quite a surprise, I have to say. Please see update below.
IMPORTANT UPDATE 17 February 2010
Revised: 18th February 2010
Reader Peter has very kindly drawn my attention to the called EC -v- Italian Republic, case no C-224/00. The text of the case which is available in English and other European languages, can be seen here:
Judgment of the Court (Sixth Chamber) of 19 March 2002.
Commission of the European Communities v Italian Republic.
Failure by a Member State to fulfil its obligations – Article 6 of the EC Treaty (now, after amendment, Article 12 EC) – Difference in treatment of persons contravening the highway code according to the place of registration of their vehicle – Proportionality.
In essence, it does look as though the fines European Union citizens have been receiving are, and always have been invalid.
Again, I would reiterate that I am not a lawyer, so I cannot be sure, but I would repeat Peter’s suggestion that if you are a European Union resident and you have received a fine more than 210 days after an offence, you should write back quoting case no C-224/00, and saying you will write to MEPs etc about this. If this does not get the Italian authorities off your back – then speak to a lawyer (class actions are possible in Italy now -and I know a good firm of lawyers too!).
In summary – if you received a fine for any motoring offence after 210 days, and you are an EU citizen, you may be able to refuse to pay on the basis of C-224/00.
End of 17 February 2o1o Update
No Scam in Pisa???
On the basis of the 17 February 2010 Update, it does look as though, at the very least, some bungling has been going on.
It turns out that the Pisa fines finding their way out of Italy and onto foreign shores are not a sign of some complex mafia inspired plot. On no, it would appear that the fine people of Pisa are just being devilishly efficient, and, OK I will admit it, mildly furbo.
‘Wow’, some of my fine-struck readers may well be uttering after reading my about-turn. ‘He’s siding with the enemy’, others may be muttering darkly under their breaths. A few others may accuse me of sleeping with the enemy too.
Nope, it’s none of the above, nor have I met some charming female Pisa municipal council employee either, it’s just that I came across an article on an Italian website which states that the majority of foreign motorists committing traffic offences in Italy get away Scott free.
‘Hang on one darn moment’, I thought as the little cogs within my brain ground into action, ‘What about all those poor ex-tourist souls who’ve been hammered by a Pisa restricted traffic zone fine?’ I’m sure they would disagree about the Scott free thing. But then it all fell into place.
I’d long been wondering just why those popping into Pisa had been hit with fines, whereas others roaming to Rome, and flitting to Florence had not.
Now I know the reason. Apparently, according to an article appearing in a ‘Stranezze all’italiana’ – ‘Italian Oddities’ section on the online version of Italy’s well known Quattroruote – ‘Four Wheels’ magazine, very few Italian municipalities have the capability to send fines to foreign motorists, except, of course, and as many well know, Pisa. Thus, there is only one conclusion which can be reached.
Italy’s Most Avant-Garde Municipality: Pisa???
Pisa is not trying to scam foreign motorists, it is just an avant- garde Italian municipality. Indeed, it is one of the very few Italian local authorities to have organised itself for the collection of fines issued in connection with traffic violations committed by foreign motorists, which it is perfectly within its rights to do. That foreign motorists are about 200 times more likely to pay up and shut up, may also have something to do with Pisa’s fine efficiency too, in that Italian motorists generally become as cantankerous as hell in the face of fine.
Anyway, Pisa, I apologise. Sorry for having cast nasturtiums. It’s just that I’m not used to anywhere in Italy being exactly a champion of efficiency.
One wonders whether Pisa’s current mayor is of Swiss origin.
Beware though, motorised visitors to Italy – Pisa’s devilish efficiency can be costly. Leaning tower seekers would be well advised to leave those wheels outside of the city.
Here is a way you can avoid these pesky Pisa fines:
Book a tour from Florence to Pisa – no car in Pisa, no fine, and you get to see that amazing leaning tower! And the cost of the tour is lower than fines you could end up receiving.
Note that if you click on the link above, Blog from Italy will earn some commission on your booking – so thanks for supporting Blog from Italy – Alex Roe.
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The infamous Speeding Fines post.
This post entitled An Interesting Italian Word: Furbo, will tell you all about the Italian word which goes by the same name.
And for those who can read Italian – here is the original Quattroruote article – GLI STRANIERI RESTANO IMPUNITI which appeared on the 21 May 2008.
Andy says
Pisa Update: I contacted Eurocar by phone and by email requesting the date they notified the Pisa Municipality of my name and address. The people by phone were not at all cooperative and the email was never answered. My time was running out to either make the payment or send a request to the Pisa Municipality to appeal the fine. An American legal group that helps those contesting the fine states that “If the appeal is not accepted, the Prefect will then issue an injunction requesting payment from you of a sum which is at least double the original amount”. Remember that the amount requested in the summons is “Discounted”. Mine was 119 Euro from the actual fine of
194.50 Euro. It seemed I had no choice but to wire the funds to the Pisa Municipality. That was on 9-27-10.
Then on 10-6-10 I receive a call from the fraud department of my credit card company asking if I had authorized a charge from Eurocar in Rome, Italy. I said no, I did not! I was told that this was fraudulent use of my card and it would be canceled with a new card issued in it’s place. Also that I would not be liable for the charge. Then on 10-29-10 I receive a billing from Eurocar for 36 Euro in administrative costs relating to the Pisa infraction. The bill was sent back to Eurocar marked “no longer at this address”. This bill I refuse to pay. My reason; The infraction was on 5-10-10, then Eurocar was queried and they responded on 5-15-10, just five days later. This means
that Pisa was well outside of the 360 time limit when sending the letter of violation and they knew it. Because Eurocar did not or would not tell me when they verified my name/info I had no choice but to pay. Obviously Eurocar is in bed with the various Municipalities to provide the information requested but not to tell the customer/violator until the Municipality has been paid. This amounts to fraud. On my next trip to Europe I will be looking at another rental car company, maybe Hertz.
Andy says
Correction: The dates of the infraction and the Eurocar notification are 5-10-09 and 5-15-09.
Jenn says
Andy, in ,my situation:
1.Infraction occurred in April 2012
2.Rental car company provided information to municipality in May 2012
3.However the city marks the ascertainment date as of September 2012
Questions :
1. Should the counter start as of #2 or as of #3?
2. Does the counter end when EMO sends you unofficial Notice of Payment or when the city contacts you?
Thanks,
Zeev
Al says
Hi Jenn,
1. The counter starts as of #1.
2. The counter ends when EMO SENDS you the official “Violation of the Highway Code Report” via registered mail.
(Pisa doesn’t send unofficial notices).
Read April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584)
Best,
Al
Andy says
Last year I was traveling from Rome to Edinburgh Scotland and had rented a car. One of my stops was in Pisa on May 10th, 2009. On August 21st of this year I received a fine from Pisa by registered mail. Since then I have spent numerous hours researching the use of camera’s in ZTL areas like that in Pisa, Firenze and now in Rome. They are perfectly legal. That is not to say they are the right way to control traffic, but they are legal.
The Italian Highway Code makes reference to the time allowed for a municipality to contact the violator. For foreign drivers who have rented a vehicle it is 360 days from the “accertamento”. Depending on how this word is used, it is translated to “check”, “verification”, “ascertainment” or “assessment”. In this case it does not mean “check”
or ticket or the violation date. It means the date when the owner or registered drivers information is “verified”. The municipality has a set time limit to collect this information, I believe it to be 150 days to make a request of the rental car owner and 60 days for them to respond. The 360 days starts the day the municipality receives the information. The amount of time they are allowed is ridiculous and based on the amount they collect each year, about 52 million Euro in Florence, they are back logged. If you were in one of these cities during the tourist season then it may take
15 months for the fine to arrive. If you do not pay the fine, the authorities have the right to flag your passport which means that if you return to Italy you may be in for a surprise upon arrival or if you try to rent another car. I am not happy about paying them 119 Euro and I am not happy with the use of cameras in Pisa or anyplace else in the world but this is reality. Pay the fine and be aware on your next visit to a foreign land and watch out for the speed traps in Austria. I got nailed there for doing 90 kph in a 50 kph zone. And I won’t forget the 65L parking ticket I got in Edinburgh.
Happy motoring, Andy
Tim says
Hi,
I had an admin fee deducted from my credit card by Hertz earlier this year for a fine in pisa (presumably restricted Zone) I have since moved from my address at that time in the UK. I am using an Australian driving licence and am an Australian Citizen. I have never received a fine from the authorities most likely as I have never been at the address since hertz charged me. I plan on travelling back to Italy in the coming weeks will they be able to stop me at immigration and issue me with the fine?
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Davis says
was in Pisa late September 2009
Al says
Hi Tim,
This is Al, not Alex (and his “Blog from Italy”).
“will they be able to stop me at immigration and issue me with the fine?”
No worries mate! 🙂
If you’re interested to learn more and you have a little time to spare, read this post:
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/
Look at the information at the top of the page, April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am comment and (if possible) scroll down through the comments since May.
Art. 201,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Violations Notification) states that offenders residing abroad must be notified within 360 days, calculated from the date of the infraction.
Even if the time limit has well and truly run out, you must lodge an appeal……………..
Best,
Al (not Alex)
Amanda says
I completely agree with Nancy! I was in Pisa in July 2008. It is now May 2010 and I JUST got my violation/ticket. Avoid Pisa. Actually, I might avoid all of Italy, but Pisa (an all around bad destination) really turned me off to the whole country.
Enza Dustin says
You are turning down the cradle of world culture just because you were so st-upid you could not read the parking signs?
Little piece of advice: travelling is NOT for you. Just stay at home and watch soap operas. That’s all you should do.
Alex Roe says
I’m sure Amanda will appreciate your well-considered advice, Enza. Now, perhaps if the road signs were better, people would not have so many problems? No?
Thanks, I think, for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Ana says
Hi Alex,
Few years passed and nothing changed:( . I have just received 2 notifications form Municipality of Pisa for “circulating in restricted traffic zone”. I was there in June 2011, so they sent the notifications after 260 days. You updated your article on Feb 17, 2010 with information about EC Treat art12. You wrote that “if you received a fine for any motoring offence after 210 days, and you are an EU citizen, you may be able to refuse to pay on the basis of C-224/00”. Do you know anyone who exercised your advice? Do you know the results of these appeals? I am considering the possibility.
Best:)
Ana
Al says
Hi Ana,
Appealing on the basis of C-224/00 won’t get you anywhere.
Read all the information at the top of this page: http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/.
Read August 5, 2010 at 11:33 am comment.
(http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-28626).
Best,
Al (not Alex)
Nancy says
We just received notice from Munic. of Pisa on 4-20-09 and we were there in May 2008! This city is not worth the problem/cost. We Americans and other foreign tourists need to post post post for NO ONE to waste time going to Pisa. We spent twelve fabulous days in Italy (Rome, Florence, Assisi, Perugia, San Gimigniano) and agreed if we had it to do over we would have NOT travelled to Pisa for the stupid photo op. We had used public train/bus until we rented a car and loved driving into Perugia and Tuscany and then to Pisa. PISA NOT WORTH it especially now since we have a certified letter waiting for us at our local post office with an obvious ticket. We are trying to decide whether to acknowledge it or not. Before the letter notice we both agreed we absolutely love Italy and would go back. NOW however with the notice, we agree there are MANY MANY other places in the world to travel to and Italy is screwing itself with the Pisa Plot to skime more money out of tourists — you would think with the economies of the world suffering and tourism down, they would not continue with this practice. EVERYONE PLEASE POST DO NOT TRAVEL TO PISA – ITS DIRTY AND NOT WORTH THE PROBLEMS OF PARKING/DRIVING SCAMS