Information You Need to Provide
- Codice Fiscale – now you can use your shiny new Italian tax code! If you have problems, let me know.
- Cognome – Surname
- Nome – First Name
- Data di Nascita – Date of Birth – eg 25/12/1999 (American friends – Watch out for European date format which is Day/Month/Year)
- Sesso – Sex. M = Male, so F, well you know what F stands for. If you are neither M or F, or from Mars then you are in the clear. The Pisa people have not, as far as I know, worked out an inter-planetary violation delivery system. They are working on this I imagine.
- Nascita in Stato Estero – Born Abroad – select this
- Comune di Nascita – Birthplace – write the place where you came into this world, eg New York, Ginette, London
The rest you may leave blank, but entering an email address may be a good idea so a password can be sent. I don’t know if this happens though. Filling the rest in may not help anyway.
Make sure the ‘Acconsento al trattamento de dati‘ field is checked. This gives consent to allow them to hold your details on computer etc. This is requirement under Italian law.
Now You are on Your Own
Sorry, not having been sent a fine for driving in Pisa’s infamous ZTL/TZV area, I don’t know what exactly you will see once logged in. However the following information might help those who do log in.
To help you actually see the photo of the violation, this information may help:
- Numero verbale: ‘Offence number’ (solo il numero senza lettere) ‘(only the number without letters)’
- Anno: ‘Year’
- Targa: ‘Car Licence/Registration Plate number’
- Data violazione (gg/mm): ‘Date of violation (dd/mm)’
If you can send me screen shots of what you see after registering, do so, and I’ll add them here for reference.
Send Me Copies of These Unusual Vacation Snaps
If you wish, and you can, please send me a copy the photos you see. This will help others. I will not name names, if you do not want me to, but I may mention dates and locations. Use this site’s contact system in the first instance, and then I’ll set up an email address just for this.
Here is a snap from the Pisa honey-trap, so you can see what these photos should look like:
Hope the above helps. If you need more information, or spot inaccuracies, just let me know.
Thanks for reading.
Pisa Image from Freefoto.com
Jamie Mack says
Hi All
What a load of rubbish, trying to pay a fine in this day and age and having to go through hours of searching and Google trickery just to find the answer. This site was my first stop and it is very informative, but didn’t have the answer of how to pay online.
Well now I have the answer, and even more you can use Paypal.
First go to the website http://www.e.aida-citel.it/areaterritorialepisa/pisa/servizi?ts=pagamenti
It’s all in Italian, but Google Chrome will let you translate.
Click “Pagamento multe on-line/On-line fines payment”
This will now take you to another page (again Google Translate is good)
Enter your vehicle reg no. (TARGA) and the Form No. without the letters just the first digits before the year
If you got that right it then takes you to the fine page, detailing the details and the amount.
They may be more than one amount (for early payment) this is form 5 days after the notification date. If this is black then I would suggest paying the greater amount as they will only charge you extra and admin fees if you don’t. Most of us received out notification well after the 5 days.
It will then take you to another page asking for your email address, I highly recommend adding one for proof of payment.
The next screen reviews the payment, then it asks how you’d like to pay. Select Paypal and it then confirms the adjusted amount with commission usually €1.90
Now you are taken to Paypal – So I wouldn’t incur any bank charges for paying in Foreign currency I decided to use my currency card for the payment.
Once you have completed you are then taken to a confirmation page back in the Pisa website. Print this off and then you should receive you confirmation email.
Job Done!
I do have screenshots but unfortunately I am unable to add these to the post.
Hope this helps you all, and I for one will be more eagle eyed next time I’m abroad and going down what looks like a one way street. Once you look on Google maps you do think to yourself how on earth did I miss that!
Happy Holidays
rachal bixler says
Helpful piece . I loved the facts – Does someone know where my assistant can acquire a template 1994 NY OSC AC92 copy to edit ?
GAVARAZZI says
Thought I’d post to say that these ‘fines’ are still alive and well in 2013
I got a letter from my hire car company telling me they’d charged the admin fee to my card and that the authorities in Pisa would be forwarding me an invoice for the actual fine of encroaching into the ZTL. The date of my trip was May, the letter from Avis is dated August but didn’t actually arrive until late September (im in the UK btw). My card was hit in August of course.
I had no idea what it was all about until I found this blog but the details from Avis don’t work, so no photo evidence. Furthermore the letter states that the incident occurred on the date I collected the car from Pisa airport and straight onto the road to Sienna, so I know for certain that I was nowhere near the ZTL on that date
I did however get close to the zone 6 days later but I’m pretty certain that even then, I didn’t cross into it, according the map I’ve seen. I was hoping the photo would clear it up for me
I’m beginning to wonder if this is scam by the rental firm. It’d be simple to send out invoices to cream off a little extra revenue – how many would actually challenge it!?
Good luck fighting it everyone
huseyin aydin says
HI i have this company (MUNICIPLITY OF PISA) sending me letter in regards to a fine i have recieved while traveling europe last Nov 2011.
i recall the fine and the fine was AUTOMATICALLY taken out of my account (credit card).
I HAVE PROOF FROM MY BANK STATEMENTS THAT THE FINE WAS PAYED ….. AND YET IM STILL RECIEVING THESE FINES!!!!
I AM PLANING ON TAKING THIS FINE TO THE POLICE.
THANK YOU
Al says
Hi Huseyin,
The amount deducted from your credit card was an admin fee (charged by the car rental company) for providing your details to the Pisa police.
Please refer to this post: http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/.
Al
Lars Gustafsson says
I visited Pisa 071110 and has now got a ticket from the police and they want to have 119 euros for cirkulating in restricted area.It took only 8 month so they are much quicker now. I have understand that I am not alone. I think I hade to try paying.
Martin says
Hello.
i´ve also received ticket from Comune di PISA (circulating in restricted traffic zone … ) seems that they have one form to send to all visitors.
I am EU citizen and I´ve received this after 9 months (so it is more than 210 days), so I should not pay? Please, do you have letter template that I can send to those “nice” people that I will not pay (quoting case C-224/00) ?
Thank you very much
Al says
Hi Martin,
Please refer to this post: http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/
Read:
– The information at the top of the page,
– April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/#comment-27584) comment,
– And scroll down through the more recent comments (since February 2011).
Best,
Al (not Alex)
Gert Christensen says
Hi
Traffic fines in Italy?! How to deal with them? Please read my experinces!
My advise: PAY, THEN STAY AWAY – AND WARN YOUR FRIENDS!
Two years ago we were staying at a hotel in central Florenze (Firenze!) Rented a car for three days to see things in Toscana. BUT! Getting back to this central hotel was extremely difficult. And without realizing it we were caught several times in phototraps close to the hotel. A little more than a year later: 8 fines – 109 euros each. Kind regards from Polizia Municipale di Firenze!
No less than two appeals from us to Polizia Municipale di Firenze – posted as registered mail. Why two (identical) appeals?? Well, we have heard various things about Italian efficiency…
And what do you think happened? No response to these appeals!!!! I’ve written to the “front-office” of the Polizia several times asking: “What became of our appeals?” No answer to these inquiries! But we were told that now it was too late to appeal anyway!!! Our appeals were posted well within the deadline. Then they disappeared! And so we got the answer: Now it is too late anyway! What a disgrace!
Some months passed – perhaps they could see the farce in this procedure after all? But NO! They have just Doubled the 8 fines! In all we now have to pay just under 2000 eurosl! Pay NOW or face a trial – held in ItalyI If you lose (and you will LOSE!), you will have to pay for lawyers, trial etc. AND the Italian court will (and can!) make a court in your own EU-country contact you and force you to pay!! And I assure you: YOU WILL PAY!
Forget appealing – I wrote two posted appeals mailed as registered post. Again and again I have asked Polizia Municipale di Firenze what became of these appeals. NO explanation. No response in that context!
Now we will pay the doubled fines (close to 2000 EUROS). The alternative? A fair trial in Italy?! Well, what do you think!? To make a long story short: We shall have to PAY, STAY AWAY – AND WARN ALL OUR FRIENDS!! I suggest you do the same.
Gert, Denmark
Al says
Hi Gert,
I’d like to thank you on behalf of the Florence municipality for your donation! 🙂
C’mon man! What happened to your Viking heritage? 😉
It’s rather difficult to give you a detailed answer.
All I’ll say is that if your fines were sent a little more than a year later, they were invalid and that nobody has ever been taken to court.
Why don’t you read the information mentioned on my comment just above yours?
Al (not Alex)
Gigi says
I have received two penalties – Pisa and Florence. I have paid the Florence one but cannot find the original letter for the Pisa penalty. I have the car registration no., date and time and location but no penalty no. How can proceed to pay the fine?
Thanks.
Mudi says
All Blogs/Comments no one has ever said anything about the evidence. As I found out that all the Italian authority providing is a photo of number plate of your car. Surely this not prove at all that the car you were driving was in that street unless the photo also shows the car in the street and perhaps with your face to prove that it was indeed you in that car and in that sreet. Does any one have any comment on this?
Al says
Hi Mudi,
Photographic evidence & Privacy in Italy.
Photographs, … are never attached to the fines. They can be viewed on-line or at the police station.
For privacy reasons pictures of the front end of the car can not be taken.
Such pictures are allowed only if taken by laser speed gun and if the traffic offender is pulled up by the police on the spot.
Art 196,1 (Solidarity principle) states that as owner of your (private) vehicle, or as holder of the rental agreement of the vehicle, you are considered to be jointly liable with the author of the traffic violation for the payment of the fine.
Read http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/.
Al (not Alex)
dokti says
hi,
I have read information on your blog and the discussion below but I am still a bit concerned. I have received my ticket on november 2010 and the violation took place in July 2009, so after lapsing of 360 days. I am the owner of the car. In instructions on the bottom of fine there is suggestion that I can appeal to judge of peace and there is no information on such possibility to appealt to prefect. What can I do? Are the two options being paid? Can I just wrote a letter informing polizia provincionale that they missed deadline to fine me?
thx in advance,
dokti
Jean says
We just received a bill (15 months late) for over 100 Euros for the same type of “circulation” offence in Pisa. We found the picture of our rear bumper and licence plate only. It could have been in a parking lot for all we know. If it takes over a year to process they don’t deserve to be paid.
We won’t be going to Pisa again, that’s for sure.
Paul Cwethko says
I am from Canada and received a ticket in Pisa for being in an unrestricted area. It was sent to me 480 days after our visit. Also I had a “Disable Parking Sticker ” on my windscreen and it was visible. I was informed by the local police/authorities that the sticker would allow me to enter restricted areas such as the walled in cities. I am disabled and have severe walking difficulties. Any thoughts as to what to do about the 120 euro ticket I received.
Thanks
Paul
Al says
Paul,
You drove in a ZTL (Zona a Traffico Limitato – Limited Traffic Zone) and a photo of your rear license plate was taken by a camera. (“Disable Parking Sticker ” on your windscreen not visible)
Your license plate should have been registered on a “white list” of cars allowed to enter the restricted area. Hotels (within a ZTL) and associations of people with disabilities can request that your number plate be included for a limited period of time.
The local police should have explained all this to you ?
Was your ticket an unofficial “Notice of payment before notification” sent by regular mail?
If so, I would try and contact S.E.Pi. S.p.A. (Società Entrate Pisa S.p.A.)
sepi-pisa@legalmail.it (unless you have other contact information)
and get your fine cancelled (in writing).
Although I don’t know how well they speak English, explain the situation to them (with some kind of proof).
If the fine was sent by registered mail you can do the above and if unsuccessful,
(and if you want to follow the legal procedure)
You can appeal in Italian to the Prefect of Pisa within 60 DAYS because you were notified more than 360 days after the date of the alleged offence.
Article 201,1 of the Italian Highway Code (Violations Notification) states very clearly that offenders residing abroad must be notified within 360 days.
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/ –> Read “Important April 6th 2010 UPDATE” near the top of the page and my April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template is included) comment.
In conclusion, I would never ever pay such a fine!
Al (not Alex)
KK says
We traveled throughout Italy in June and July of 2009. We have received three violations from Florence and one from Pisa, which just arrived a couple of weeks ago.
Two of the Florence violations are within two minutes of each other. We remember the day, we toured the Uffizzi Gallery and we parked along the river. Where did we “Circulate in limited traffic area without authorization?” If we had even realized we were in violation of some law, two minutes would not have been enough time to correct the violation. This is completely ridiculous and we have not communicated or attempted to pay any of the violations, nor do we intend to at this point. The appeal is double the cost of the fine if you lose. What is the point of appealing – we do not speak/write Italian and I am sure we would lose so they can collect double the fine.
In Pisa we parked in a paid lot, toured the tower area and left. We followed the street signs to the tower as much as I can remember – so where was the violation! Ugh!
Sounds like the passport flagging may be a very minor risk, but only if travelling to Italy. I would like to go back someday, but then again…
Al says
KK,
I do agree that ZTL fines are shamelessly duplicated for violations just a few minutes apart!
If the Prefect turns down the appeal you’ll be ordered to pay roughly double the fine but, that is also the case if you don’t pay the fine within 60 days.
As you know your fines are invalid because you were notified over 360 days after the date(s) of the alleged offences.
If you wish (and if you want to follow the legal procedure) you can appeal within 60 days to the Prefects of Florence & Pisa.
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/
–> Read carefully my April 29, 2010 at 2:32 am (an appeal template in Italian is included) comment.
Read also August 21, 2010 at 9:58 pm comment.
Al Prefetto di Firenze
Prefettura di Firenze
Ufficio Ricorsi per Violazioni al Codice della Strada
Via Antonio Giacomini 8
50132 Firenze
Al Prefetto di Pisa
Prefettura di Pisa
Piazza Mazzini 7
56100 PISA
But you don’t seem to be inclined to appeal and, as you may have surmised, I won’t be the one to dissuade you from not paying those fines.
Best,
Al (not Alex)
Jon Reader says
Hello Just read yout blog. I have just recieved info that I commited a trafic offence in Piza on 10-08-2008. This notification is over the 210 days. Therefore I am not going to pay. I am going to send them a letter but I can’t find an address to send it too can you help. Also can you do this by e mail.Thanks Jon
x7trsa says
Hi,
i just received on he 22/3/2010 a “Notice of payment before the notification” letter from driving a rental car in a bus lane in Florence on 02/07/2009 looking for €105.85.
This is way above the 210 days. But is the 210 days from the actual offence, or from when they get my name from the car retal firm? Also, how do i find out when they got my name from the car rental firm? I thought they charged me a fee for “giving” this information to the authorities, but i do not see any charges on my credit card!
So, if i do nothing, will i get a registered letter in 60 days from now of the official fine, and will this be for €105.85 or will it now be more if i don’t pay the “notice of payment before the notification”?
What happens if i don’t sign for the registered mail with the notification for payment?
Will the rental company eventaully have to pay and then will they charge me?
Sorry about all the questions but am very annoyed as it’s nearly nine months after the event…. I don’t even know how many more of these fines I am going to receive?
Also, one final question – everywhere i look on the web the fines are always of different amounts €90, €120, €102 and €105 – you would think the fine would be the same.
Thanks,
x7trsa
Michael says
I just received 5 individual tickets for “WAS DRIVING IN A LIMITED TRAFFIC AREA WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION” while driving around Rome. They arrived via registered mail, which I signed, 1 year and 5 months later, thats 510 days after the day the violations occured. I’ve read all the blogs from most search engines. None offer advice on where to find a US attorney who may be able to help or at least get some sort of fine reduction. Can you help me find an attorney in the New York Metro area ? Each fine was for $110 Euros, times that by 5 plus the exchange rate and it totals almost $800 US Dollars. I also received as others have written here, a $30 charge from the rental car agency for each of the 5 tickets on my American Express card (so $150 bucks), which I fought and Amex got the charges removed. Again, the rental car companies charge you the fee they supposedly pay to report you as the renter to the police once they receive the ticket. Here’s my problem here, These “ZTL” zones are all over the place and these rental car companies SHOULD WARN DRIVERS ABOUT THEM. My hotel also was aware that I rented the car as they were the ones who called the closest Hertz location for me. The hotel staff should also warn their customers about theses zones. This is justified because it is almost impossible to not enter one of these ZTL zones when you are out driving around and sightseeing. They are by all the major tourist sights, and if you are unaware of what to look for, like probably 99% of all tourist from all Nations are, you will get this nice surprise in the mail. My advice, don’t accept the registered mail because if they can not get a hold of you, they can’t hold you liable……most blogs state that they haven’t heard of anyone getting flagged via passport control….i guess thats the risk one has to consider if deciding not to pay. Those Italians who write that we should stop wining because we are responsible for knowing local laws and that those zones are for public safety, i disagree because if safety was so paramount, there should be road blocks duringf the ZTL hours, since 99% of all tourist vehicles unknowingly enter them, and any police athourity that takes 510 days to deliver these tickets does not deserve to be paid. These ZTL zones are a money making trap for the Italian Gov’t period, which is the main reason they are there. I don’t believe these local Italians who say they are there only to protect pedestrian traffic.
Dave Everatt says
I whole heartedly agree with Michaels comments, I would like to add one thing though. I used a sat nav both into and out of Pisa, and guess what, received two of these restricted traffic offences. You’d almost think it was deliberate wouldn’t you.
Alex Roe says
The point you make about sat nav is interesting, Dave.
I’m not a sat nav user (got it on my Blackberry, but don’t think that counts) however, I wonder whether it might be possible for Tom Tom, Garmin and the like to indicate these ZTL areas on the GPS displays. I believe it is possible technically, but am not sure whether it is feasible.
As for trying to have the fines scrubbed, try case C-224/00 as mentioned in the post above. I know it’s a case of close gates after horses have bolted, but it might save some money.
It’s an annoying situation, but until someone very powerful shouts very loudly, I doubt it will change.
Alex
Dave Everatt says
That would be a great idea Alex, I used a Navman, it would also be nice if the damn thing wouldn’t take me down farm tracks too. 🙂
As for the fine I have paid up, I considered the legal challenge but I just want to forget about it now. One other thing with the payment, I was charged by my bank for the bank transfer £9 on top of the fine because I was paying in euro.
Keep up the good work.
Dave
mike springett says
I was on holiday in Italy august 2008. I received 2 fines last year that I paid . I received another from Florance in Jan 2010 but the date of the fine was 365 days from the date they received notification from the hire company. Italian law states they have only 360 days to issue the fine. I sent a fax pointing this out but was informed I had to send a dispute to the fine in writing in Italian by registered mail. If they disallowed my claim for some reason the fine would significantly increase. As this was to much hassle and felt unsure they would uphold my dispute I paid up once again. Now I have just received another fine this time from Pisa, Feb 2010 which must now be at least 30 days over the 360 day limit I am considering my options and having read other comments I am afraid I could yet receive sill more fines. Has anybody got any sugestions
Alex Roe says
Mike – please see the update in the post above about C-224/00 – it gives you another option. I know someone who is having a go using C-224/00 – but don’t know the outcome yet.
Best of luck,
Alex
arene says
moi aussi ,française en visite à Pise,ai pris 7 PV à 115 euros chacun.Il est hors de question que je paye ces PV.C est de l arnaque pure,car aucune instruction est donné pour le touriste français,sur les routes ou pas à utiliser.Après avoir consulté un avocat en france,en droit international,il ne peut y avoir aucun recours contre nous.La légistation italienne n est pas la même que celle utilisée en iTALIE.Je reste donc avec ma conviction de ne rien payer,et si tout le monde qui reçoit ce genre de PV,fait comme moi,peut être que les autorités italiennes changeraient leur escroquerie. Salutations à tous.
English translation via Google Translate (with edits by Alex Roe -who does not know much French, and cannot guarantee accuracy)
Me too, a French person visiting Pisa, I got 7 fines (hope this is a translation error) of 115 euros each. There is no way I will pay these fines as they are purely a scam is, since no instructions are given to French tourists on the roads they use . After having consulted a lawyer in France, under international law, Italy cannot bring a case against us. The legislation is not the same as that used in Italy. I do not intend to pay remains my conviction not to pay and if everyone who receives this kind of fine, acts like me, the maybe the Italian authorities to change their cheating. Salutations to one and all.
Please note that this is an English language blog first an foremost. Italian is OK from time to time because this site is about Italy, and I know Italian. However other languages can make life tough for readers, and for me. Please can you try to keep comments in English? Thanks – Alex Roe
Alex Roe says
Joni – It looks to me as though you’ve got something wrong earlier on in the process.
The system seems to think you were born somewhere in Italy – the ‘ed uniti’ would indicate ‘and surrounding area’.
I’d go back, if possible, and try again. You should be presented with a list of countries – not Italian district council areas. However I have never seen the back end of the system.
If someone wants to do and send me a set of screen shots, then I can annotate them and put them here.
Alex
Joni says
Alex,
OK, I did as you suggested and this time I got a litte further. It gave me a password. Now my question is, what do I do with the password? Where do I use it?
Thanks for your patience, Joni
Alex Roe says
Hi Joni,
Glad you’ve made another step. Like a mystery game this – solve the puzzles! As for the password, I don’t really know.
Are you still trying to create a codice fiscale? You should not need a password for that.
You will need the password to see the fine photos though.
No, sorry. You do not need any password to see the photos. My mistake.Let me know at what point you are, and which system you are in.
Alex
Joni says
Alex,
This happened when I went into the second website . The Pisa e-government site. It gave me what I assume is a user name and a passwork. The only other button was an exit button.
Joni
Joni says
I followed the website information and created a codice fiscal. ThenI went to the Pisa e-gov website and entered the required information. It keeps kicking it back saying I have entered incorrect data. I entered it every way I could think of.
The first time I created a codice fiscal, I inadvertently entered the wrong birth month. I went in an corrected it and received a new number (similar expect for the last 5 characters).
Any ideas. This is so frustrating.
Thanks, Joni
Alex Roe says
Hi Joni,
Before I explain how the codice fiscal works so you can check it, are you sure you used the European format for your date of birth? -which is dd/mm/YYYY not the US format which is mm/dd/yyyy
So if you were born on the 1 February 1978, the date should be 01/02/1978, not 02/01/1978.
Check this first, please, and let me know who you get on.
Best,
Alex
Joni says
Alex,
That may have been part of the problem. Now I’m stuck on Comune di Nascita. I’m assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that they are asking where the infraction occurred.
Which selection do I make. The notice I recieved says Municiality of Pisa, but the place of offence on the notice says Via Roma.
Thanks for your help. Joni
Alex Roe says
Hi Joni,
At least you have made some progress! Comune di Nascita is where you were born – put ‘Estero’ (overseas) and then EE for the Comune code.
If you have problems – leave another comment here.
Best,
Alex
Joni says
Alex,
There is a drop down menu and that is not one of the options. The options are:
Casalbuttano
Grandola
Grumello Cremonese
Pescarolo
Pozzazlio
Rivarolo
San Genesio
Sesto
all options are followed by “ed uniti”
Thanks again, Joni
john dixon says
I have had three traffic violation infringements for circulating in restricted traffic zones from Pisa and Florence. All have come in since August this year 2009. All are for a holiday in August 2008. Latest is 115 Euros and came yesterday. is there no time limit to them sending out these infringement notices?
Alex Roe says
Hi John,
Please see this post: http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/
There is some information on time limits. Italy has plenty of time to get these pesky fines out, I’m afraid.
Alex
Peter Ryder says
I have just had FOUR fines, for two trips by me and my family to drop off and then collect a group visiting the city centre in early August last year. I note that a lot of people get these things a very long time after the event and perhaps the answer then is to return the letter marked ‘gone away’ or ‘now deceased’? Even if these fines did not have all the characteristics of a scam, any authority which takes so long to act is not entitled to succeed.
Gary Huntsman says
I just received my “Welcome To Pisa, Now Go Home ” RTZ violation I was issued in May 2008. They should have saved themselves the cost of the registered mail. Do these clowns really expect me to pay this? The ticket is 19 months old. I had no desire to go back to Italy before I got this ticket and I sure as hell have none now.
“Come and Get Me, Copper!!!”
Andy B says
I’ve just received FOUR separate letters for four “offences” (which all are itemised as taking place within a ten minute period on the same day – driving in a restricted zone in Pisa).
That’s four fines of €115 – totalling €450 plus the credit card charges automatically added earlier this year.
I don’t object to paying one fine (as a hapless tourist who didn’t do his research on Italian traffic signs prior to going on holiday in Pisa), but FOUR in a ten minute period is excessive.
Surely there must be some fairness policy in place to combat this blatant profiteering? I haven’t decided yet whether to pay any fines or contact an Italian lawyer – especially given the amount of money I’m being asked to cough up. Any advice is appreciated, Thanks, Andy
Alex Roe says
Four in ten minutes! Wow, Andy. That does sound excessive, although it is possible.
I do suggest that you contest the fines, you may be able to convince them to reduce the number of offences to one or two.
Regards,
Alex
PS I’ve made a mental note to try and track down an English speaking lawyer in Pisa. Although you could start by looking here: The English Yellow Pages: http://www.englishyellowpages.it/
Alex Nelson says
I just received a notice from an infringement on 2 January 2008 !! The date of the notice is 29 July 2009, 18 months afterward. We were thinking that we must have driven on the wrong side of the road or something so we tried to get the photo and it was not available. Probably been too long since it occurred. These people are hopeless.
I won’t be paying the fine and it gives me one more reason not to visit again.
Double trouble says
I have just received 2 of these damn traffic tickets for “circulating in a restricted traffic zone…etc” on Via Roma in Pisa.
2 tickets from consecutive days exactly(!) one year ago. 115Euro each. (187.50 if I dont pay within 60 days – bloody thing took 3 weeks to get to me since they posted it)
So is it legitimate?
I’ve checked out the photos – both subtly different – yet could have been shot anywhere.
I was definitely there on one of the days. Not the other. (How many times do you need to go to Pisa to take that photo pretending to hold up the leaning tower?!)
The IBAN number is the same as the one quoted above by John Lee, but the Swift code is different.
The paper it’s on is cheap copy paper and the print quality is poor.
It’s all well and good giving advice on how best to pay this, but does anyone have any good ideas about how to contest this scam? I’ve looked about on various other forums/blogs. Some say ‘just pay it’ others pride themselves in not paying it.
Cheers,
Nat Fallingforit
Shawn Stephens says
I was in Italy last year at this time. Six months later, I received a ticket by mail for driving in a restricted area in Florence. The letter was notice that I would receive “official notice” (registered mail?) in the future. I looked at various blogs about the traffic tickets and decided to not pay it. I never heard back on that citation. I don’t have plans to return within several years (not due to this issue), and I felt that it was something of a scam – even if it was officially sanctioned and perpetrated by a governmental office.
A couple weeks ago I received notice of violating a restricted travel zone in Pisa last year. At first, I thought it was a follow-up letter from Florence, but later realized it was a new citation. Interestingly, this was sent registered mail. However, the return receipt on the back of the envelop was in Italian and French so my American postal worker didn’t have me sign anything and he just left it attached to the letter.
Again, I’m not inclined to pay the fine. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve never received notice. I consider it a badge of honor to now be able to say I have Italian authorities pursuing me on two criminal charges. It’s a much better souvenir than the cheap t-shirts I bought for my kids. What’s the statute of limitations for traffic violations in Italy anyway?
A few months after my vacation, I did have a charge on my credit card from a rental car company, but it was a different company name and city from the company I used. I disputed the charges because it didn’t match my information. In reading others’ notes, it would appear that the charge was from the government requesting my info from them, but who knows? I never heard back from that dispute and the charges were dropped.
Next time I go, I may have to muddy up my license plates. I’m such a fugitive.
Wishing you the best,
Shawn (I guess I should start using an alias now)
Alex says
Hi public enemy number one in Italy Shawn,
I think traffic offences are still covered by civil not criminal law in Italy, so you are probably not on Italy’s most wanted list!
“What’s the statute of limitations for traffic violations in Italy anyway?” – not sure – will have to look that up, or ask someone who will know.
Pisa and Florence are fine hotspots in Italy – and other locations will follow.
As to not paying – the choice is yours. While it is unlikely that the Italian police will come knocking on your door, there is a remote possibility that your passport may be flagged, so if you come to Italy again, someone might bring up the subject of unpaid fines. Not heard of this happening yet though.
If you have not signed for a registered delivery letter, then it is difficult for them to prove that you ever received anything, in which case they might send out another notification or simply drop the thing. What will actually happen is anyone’s guess.
“A few months after my vacation, I did have a charge on my credit card from a rental car company, but it was a different company name and city from the company I used. I disputed the charges because it didn’t match my information. In reading others’ notes, it would appear that the charge was from the government requesting my info from them, but who knows? I never heard back from that dispute and the charges were dropped.” – This happens from time to time – cloned number plates, I think, or cloned credit card – beware.
I like the muddied number plates idea! Could be a market for special super sticky mud replacement in fine ridden Italy!
Cheers,
Alex
Caroline Duggan says
HI Alex,
would it be possible to get john Lee who posted on 9th may’s email address as I have a fine I want to pay and am still not quite sure how to pay it and do not want to get stopped next time I go to Pisa
Thanks
Caroline Duggan
Alex says
Hi Caroline,
John Lee kindly granted permission for me to pass you his email address, as you should know by now.
Best regards,
Alex
Chris Heyn says
I live in Italy and have from time to time got fines for parking, speeding etc. My 21 yr old son is actually an expert on getting hauled up.
It would be convenient to pay by credit card particularly from abroad but there are 2 problems.
1. This facility does not exist, cetainly in Lombardia where I live.
2. This point is important because each Italian region has it’s own system.
Therefore the most suitable way is wire transfer using Swift and IBAN references. It is important as the contributors have done to check diary, photos to be sure it was you. And if possible verify the communcation is not a scam.
Consider that my wife received a demand for a fine for parking in a banned spot in Rome, when she was taking the kids to School near Milan. My eldest son was apparently involved in hit and run on his motorbike in Verona when he was at school (And we did check the register) in Monza!!
I’ll be happy to answer any questions you may have as an English resident in Italy for 14 years.
Alex says
Thanks for the offer Chris! Very kind.
If I cannot help out, I hope you can! Two heads are generally better than one!
Sorry to hear about your 21 year old expert though!
Kind regards,
Alex
Nadia says
I also got a ticket and when I went to pay via the iban and swift multiple banks came up. Does anyone know which one is the correct one to pay?
John Lee says
I received a notice of violation last week – circulating in restricted traffic zone without authorization (3 Via Roma, Pisa) – that occurred on May 20, 2008, nearly a year ago. I check out the http site give with a photo of the license plate. Yep, that was the car I rented and was in Pisa on that day.
I corresponded with the Pisa Municipal Police Station by e-mail – esteroinfo@sepi-pisa.it – the e-mail address that was on the “Infringemens of the Itallan Highway Code” document I received (I hope the info in the document is legitmate!) and was given instruction to wire payment (EUR 115.00) to . I was given the following instructions:
“You can pay by bank deposit using the coordinates written on your fine (Iban Code and Swift Code). You must write on the reason of your payment the number of form, so we’re able to identify your payment.
It’s the surest and quickest way.
If you have problems you can send a cheque (it’s better if it’s in Euros) payable to Polizia Municipale and you must send it to Polizia Municipale
– Piazza dei Facchini 16 56125 Pisa Italy(please send in attachment a copy of your fine).
At your disposal for further information
Best Regards
Further information about our bank:
• the name and the address of our bank are :
CASSA DI RISPARMIO LUCCA PISA LIVORNO
AGENZIA 1 – CORSO ITALIA 4 -56125 PISA
• Account number is 77
• the name and the address of the recipient are:
SEPI SPA COMUNE DI PISA SANZIONI AMMINISTRATIVE PIAZZA DEI FACCHINI 16, 56125 PISA
• INTERNATIONAL COORDINATES:
IBAN IT64G0620014021000000000077
– BIC (swift code): BPALIT3LXXX”
I chose to bank transfer (wire) the funds. Then e-mailed a copy of the wire as a PDF file to the e-mail address above.
Definitely a ripoff! But may want to go back to Europe some day and don’t want to worry that I a warrant will be waiting for me when I go thru passport control.
John
Alex says
Hi John,
Many thanks for having taken the time to provide this information. I’ll build it into the post above – others should find the information very useful. If nothing else, they will be able to see whether they have been asked to pay their fines into the same bank account.
Checking the photo is a very good idea – a few times I have heard of people receiving fines when they were nowhere near the area in which the alleged offence was committed. So do take the time to look at the photo, and to cross reference it with car hire/rental documentation.
Note to others: The information above only refers to traffic offences committed in the Pisa council area, although the company SEPI mentioned above does collect fines for areas around Pisa too.
If another bank account is mentioned, then people may be right to be suspicious and to fire off an email.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
Alex
H. Terry Buchanan says
10/17/14
Dear Alex:
I have scanned almost 79 blogs dating to early 2009 on this subject (primarily Pisa, Italy “notices of infringements …” and am bewildered by this confused jungle of various solutions.. My notice identified me as the culprit on 10/20/13 for a Hertz rental car violation in a restricted traffic zone. I was not the driver but was on the Hertz lease contract (obvious source of the information sent to the Pisa Police Station.
My efforts to contact the Pisa email address to make a credit card payment through the Herttz International office have also been fruitless. No live person is available to discuss payment options at the Pisa Police Station on the ticket letterhead. I am prepared to pay the !01 E.to 125 E plus possible Herta fees when processed if and when a legitimate authority is accessible.
The Italian way to scam legitimate non-Italian tourists is a shame and should be fought through the government bureaucracy which is a foolish dream.
It’s likely I’ll be waiting a long time before I send any good Euros to Pisa. I’m a Scottish Buchanan.
Best regards.
H. Terry Buchanan
Glendale, CA
USA .
Alex Roe says
Dear Terry,
Bewildering is the right word! The truth seems to be that nobody really knows how to manage this pesky situation and not being able to contact anyone or not receiving replies does seem to be a common problem too.
While I cannot say it is a scam, I can understand how people might think it is – the lack of replies, virtual impossibility of being able to speak to anyone and the overall lack of transparency are all common aspects of scams. Word is spreading and it will put people off coming to Italy. One wonders whether the cost v benefits of this fines has been worked out – knowing Italy, this is highly unlikely.
You may eventually receive a notification from a US debt collection agency (as someone who has commented here else already has) in which case, write back and tell them you have made every effort to pay the fines but cannot. Offer to pay the fines to the debt collection agency (if this happens) but refuse to pay any more than the amount of the fines. You have attempted to pay the fines, so why should you pay more?
Let us know how you get on, if you have a moment. Thanks.
Alex
Alex says
@Michael Klave
If you saw the picture, then they got you for something, I’m afraid.
As I have written elsewhere on this blog, Pisa is one of the few Italian local authorities to bother fining foreigners. Trouble is, they do seem to have put in place a system to make it easy to pay these fines. Credit card payment, the logical choice, does not seem to exist.
Back to the photo. You should see a street name on the picture, as in the example shown above. This may help you remember if you went along that street.
After having written about all this for sometime, I’ve concluded that it is probably not a scam, although heaven knows where the fine payments end up. Fiddles are legion in Italy.
Shame to hear that you won’t return to Italy – but this is understandable.
For all – do not take a car into Pisa – park outside the city, or even better, take the train there from a town nearby – if this is practicable.
Best,
Alex
Alex says
@Marc,
Sorry to hear about your problems paying this pesky fine – at least you are trying.
I’m surprised to hear that you cannot make a direct credit card payment – for other areas of Italy this is possible. And I know that wiring money is horribly expensive.
Presumably after getting into the Pisa system, there was know indication of online payment methods. I have not got into the system, so I really do not know what people see. Perhaps if someone could send me some screen shots, I could extend this and make the post more useful. Just an idea.
Best,
Alex
Jackie Watson says
they gave this this web site so I could view the photo or video concerning the ticket. Only got this blog and folks interested in charging for their help
Michael Klave says
Hi
I also got a traffic fine from Pisa , after I recieved one from Florence which i paid, no question asked then, but this time after almost a year
it,s a much higher amount like 115 Euros, I followed your prompts and saw my number plate picture, it could have been taken anywhere in Pisa. I have no idea what traffic violation I commited. it looks to me like a scam.
I am from Australia and don’t speak italian and certainly will never go back to Italy again.
I will try to send you the picture of the car
Michael thanks for all the info….
Jackie Watson says
I too got a ticket for driving in a restricted area. Like everyone says “how are we suppose to know what is restricted” The ticket is over a year old (November 2008) I went to the site where I thought I could view the photo or video and found this blog and nothing else. Alot of advertising to help you get out the mess. Does everyone get a ticket with they go to Pisa?
Alex Roe says
Hi Jackie,
“I went to the site where I thought I could view the photo or video and found this blog and nothing else.”
You found this blog? Please put the link in a comment here. This blog is not official – and I do not say this anywhere either.
“Does everyone get a ticket with they go to Pisa?” – Not everyone, but more than a few, by the sounds of things. There is another post on Blog from Italy with over 450 comments, and Pisa comes up a few times.
Give me that link!
Best,
Alex
francois says
1.5 year after the fact I received the two fines translated by the municipale police of Pisa.
two remarks:
-the cost of the fine has increased from 92 euros to 115 euro each (ZTL related)
-The car agency (auto europa) has charged my CC 60 euros for each fine.
in it intersting to note that in my rental contract it is specifically indicated” Service Delayed charged: I acknowledge and accept from now on all expenses (fuels, deductibles/excesses, fines, dammages, extra) detected or found after the drop off of vehicule and I authorize the car rental company to charge them on my credt card” and I signed this document..
The weird things is: since this rental company (Auto europa) charged me on my CC 60 euros per fine to forward the fines to the police who sent me 1.5 year later the translated version what happen If I dont pay, can they really charge my CC again??
Since I signed this document why wouldn’t they have charged the full amount of the two fines initially?
it sounds that multiplying the “communication” between the local autorities increases artificially the cost of this whole scam….
francois
Tom says
Hi Francois, and, did the car rental company charge your CC for the complete fine yet? I have a similar constelation: I got an information by the car rental company (Auto Europa) about a ZTL related violation in Bologna (actually three times within 20 min), and they charged me on my CC 3×60 Euros. I guess, these payments need to be endured (handling fee, postal service, and so on). But is the car rental company entitled to charge the complete fine on the CC? My contract says: “Service delayed charge: I acknowledge and accept from now on all expenses found after the drop off of vehicle relative to fuel and Euro 60 as reimbursment of file handling the relevant documentation of fine or high tolls not paid by me and I authorize the car rental company to charge them on my credit card.” Reading the input by “Pissed off” from Nov 18, 2008 (“We’d already paid two fines from Milan via the car rental company who charged it from my credit card.” it seems to be possible. Any idea?
Marc Garland says
Received my Pisa ZTL violation last week. They sure have this system down pat (other than the time delay)! I contested a charge on my credit card from the rental card company several months ago – now I assume it was the fee to provide my information to the police.
How do I attach the photo of my car?
An informative site, but you don’t answer the question that it’s named for: HOW do I pay?
Stephen says
Here are links to FAQs for this violation. They have instructions in several languages on how to pay the fine.
https://www.sepi-pisa.it/sanzioni
https://www.sepi-pisa.it/files/materiali/docsanzpisa/FAQ_RES_EST_ENG.pdf
Janice says
Thank you. After receiving my 2nd notice of my violation in Pisa back in 4/2015 coming by registered mail, I knew it wasn’t a SCAM. Your links and step by step process and google translation of each new tab opened, plus being a Paypal user enabled me to pay the fine, print the receipt and put Pisa to rest! Thank you again…and to all those going to Pisa….heed the signage.. or don’t drive in Pisa at all! It’s not really worth seeing anyway…so much more to Italy than one leaning tower.
Pay your fine right away if this happens to you..it starts increasing!
Pissed off says
I’ve just received ANOTHER fine from Italy – from April 07. We’d already paid two fines from Milan via the car rental company who charged it from my credit card. Now I receive this fine from Pisa authorities over 18 months later! Signposting is hopeless, how are we tourists supposed to understand, for instance, what an empty red circle means? Restricted zone – restricted by/for/to what? Talk about welcoming. All this crap means is we won’t be going back to Italy. The money grabbing I’ties can get stuffed. Plenty of safer places to drive in the world – like Iraq, Afganistan!
Jane Mantini says
We always seem to get a traffic ticket in Italy. The last one came 10 months after our last trip to Italy. We finally paid it via a cousin who came to the states to visit us and he took the papers back to Italy and paid it for us. Signs are confusing and especially in parking places. Once we saw someone exit a parking place. We quickly got in that spot. When we returned there were orange cones around the area and you guess it a parking ticket. What a bummer. Since we hope to travel to Italy again we paid the tickets. Next time we will use just public transportation
Jane Mantini
Alex Roe says
Ann, if you check out my horribly long post and the comments here:
http://italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/
You will see that this has been covered. Basically, it is not really known what the consequences of not paying will be. There is, however, a remote possibility that your passport will be flagged, and seeing as your passport details are theoretically passed on to the police whenever you stay in Italy, this might result in you receiving a visit from the Italian police the next time you come to Italy. From what I understand passport details are held on record for 10 years – although theoretically nothing can be put on computer without you having first given authorisation – at least this is the case for Italian residents.
As to whether you pay or not – that is up to you.
All the best,
Alex
Ann says
Has anyone simply not paid the ticket? What are the consequences of going back to a different area of Italy?
Alex Roe says
Hi Diane,
I agree that the photos do not show a fat lot. They could have been taken just about anywhere too. I know that the street/area name is given – but a camera identification number is not – and all the info could be added with Photoshop.
As to how you might go about proving that these images cannot be used as valid evidence, I do not know. That’s well and truly (Italian) lawyer territory. I imagine that these cameras are registered and certified somewhere.
If someone down in Pisa could check the location, that would be good. There is a manhole cover which could be used to help establish if this camera is where it is supposed to be.
Let’s see what others think.
I’ll see if I can track down someone blogging from Pisa and ask them to take a look, and some photos, if possible.
As you say – keep hammering away.
Cheers,
Alex
diane cumming says
These photgraphs do not prove that you were on a particular street, let alone a particular area. They dont show where you are. Those photographs could have been taken anywhere. It is nothing but a scam. Let’s keep on fighting!
Alex Roe says
Heather – Aargh!
Read the small print on the car rental company rental form. These admin charges are mentioned I believe – but no one ever reads the small print, or does not think fines will be a problem.
Driving in Italy can turn out to be expensive.
Still waiting for more info on this.
Sorry to hear about yet another victim.
All the best,
Alex
Heather R says
We just received a bill for 113E for a violation we supposedly committed last year; however we cannot view the picture. My Italian friend thinks that because a year has passed, the gov’t has simply removed the photo from their site. Aargh! To compound the problem, a few months after our trip, there was a $50 Visa charge from my rental company with no explanation. I contested it with Visa, but now I have received a bill for $70 from Milan for the $50 plus $20 in fees for not paying the first bill (that I never received an invoice for)! Apparently this $50 charge is standard when a rental company has to research your info and give it to the gov’t.
Alex Roe says
Many thanks Mr/Ms Shafted,
I’ll adjust the post above to reflect the alternative method of looking at the photos.
The only slight problem is that the SEPi site does not look convincing.
Still, it is much quicker than the method I posted about above.
All the best,
Alex
Shafted Tourist says
You don’t need to go thru this to see your photos of the offence please see the following post and website for further info
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187895-i68-k2226761-o20-Pisa_Restricted_Zone_Traffic_Fine-Florence_Tuscany.html
Mary says
I have been caught by this “Pisa scam” It took them 15 months to send me notice of ‘circulation in restricted trafic zone on the Via Roma. Agree, never go go to Piza. Now I must pay the fine of E 113,00 in US dollars……..Date of offence-11/05/2007. Notice sent to me in US on Aug.29,2008. Mary
Alex Roe says
Hi Nicolas,
Glad you found it useful, and sorry to hear about yet another Pisa victim.
Please do send in those photos – when you manage to see them that is…
Cheers,
Alex
Nicolas Sinclair says
Thanks for this.
I’ve been caught out with this screw-the-tourist revenue raising scam. My photo doesn’t come up but if I do get it I’ll let you have a copy.
My resolution: never to go back to Pisa.
jean froger says
They ask me 80e too .
did you pay?
if not, what hapened ?
thank you for answer
Jean
Alex Roe says
Thanks Fern and welcome to Blog from Italy.
I hope this post proves useful to one or two people.
And I do hope you do not end up joining this unhappy band.
All the best,
Alex
chris malone says
hi, so i get to see a photo of a car number plate, but what i realy need to know is,how do i pay the fine. i typed in the web address on the esteroinfo@sepi-pisa.it . but all i got was your site supposedley telling me how to pay the fine, but it doesent does it.
and as for italy it sucks , i will never go back there.
Alex says
Hi Chris,
“i typed in the web address on the esteroinfo@sepi-pisa.it …”
You got to this site?? Which web address did you type in?
“..but all i got was your site supposedley telling me how to pay the fine, but it doesent does it”
Did you do the ‘Registering with the Pisa e-gov Site’ thing? That should get you into the Pisa system so you can pay – but I have not got that far – not been fined, but the Pisa site does say you can pay via the online service.
Sorry not to have been more help,
Alex
Harry says
Alex,
I just got a letter saying I drove in a restricted traffic zone, back on 2/9/09, just got the letter yesterday, 3/12/10 with a postmark date of 2/4/10. Are you saying even though I am an American that because they took more than 210 days to send me this violation, I can claim exemption under case no C-224/00?
Sure took a long time to send me something.
Paul says
Hi All,
I was in Piza last Nov. 2010 and I just got a ticket in the mail NOv. 1 2011 it was posted for Nov. 12th 2010. After reading most of this plog I will not pay and see what happens, the photo I was able to pull up as stated before showed noting but the plate # and rear bumper.
Could have been anywhere. With the delay and non discrip of the violation I can only assume it is a scam.I am going to tryb to e-mail the listing of the International conventions and see what happens. I f I hear nothing , then I will try the phone numbers given. My feeling right now is both will be dead ends. and I will stop there.
I really like Italyand I may go back if I can, but I will woorry about the it at that time. I will let you know if I hear back from the e-mails or phone calls. My thanks to all , it;s nice to know your not alone.
PWP Safe Travel’s
Fern Driscoll says
excellent post – thank you! Have not been caught there, yet, but you never know.
Fern