At the end of the day, despite bickering politicians and dodgy organisation, life in Italy is not that bad.
Certainly up here in Milan things work. The ride is a bit bumpy at times and things could be better organised, but if you get ill, you get treated – for free. Children do get an education, almost for free, and the streets of Italy, with one or two exceptions, are not exactly violent – just ask one or two Americans for some examples of really rough streets.
Years of creative accounting have left many Italians with decent stashes in the bank, and even today Italians seem to be able to buy houses with quite short term mortgages, if they bother with a mortgage at all. Said houses will be filled with spanking new furniture, but only after many thousands of Euros have been spent on giving the new pad a ground-up make-over. Quite the opposite from the UK, for example -where 100% mortgages have been on the scene for many years. And many people do their houses up bits at a time – not in one go, as in Italy.
There is more to demonstrate that life in Italy is not a huge torture.
Italians are Wealthy
Beautiful Italy
Many Italians have the cash to enable them to take around a month off in August. Most have modern cars, and can afford the exorbitant car insurance. Then there are the scooters, Ducatis and boats. Mobile phones are everywhere, people wear decent clothes, go out, and eat and drink well. Italians decorate themselves with tattoos, have nice haircuts, enhance themselves with cosmetic surgery, and can afford sky-high dentists bills too. Many can afford Sky pay TV. Italians have nannies for their kids and carers for their elderly parents. To put the icing on the cake, Italy has a climate which really does keep life bearable.
Years ago when I arrived in Italy I was extremely surprised at the wealth here. I believed the UK was a rich country, until I came to Italy, that is. Now the UK is just about on a par with Italy – but much of the wealth is supported by credit, whereas Italians have an aversion to credit. You still cannot get UK or US style ‘pay in dribs and drabs’ credit cards that easily here. In the UK, the things grow on trees.
The ease with which credit can be had indicates low disposable income levels, or, in other words, poverty. You have to jump through hoops to get credit in Italy.
Laura’s Kiss of Death
Laura Kiss, who recently wrote a provocatively entitled ‘Freedom of the Press!‘ article on the Huffington Post, paints a bleak picture of the Living Museum. Kiss, when not posting to Huffington, also writes for the Italian newspaper which Berlusconi’s loves to hate – La Repubblica.
I don’t agree with all of her observations, and think some are inaccurate:
“…nothing works in the country…”
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Not true. Many things do work, but many of these things do not work too well, or somewhat intermittently. I think saying that ‘nothing works’ is a little on the extreme side.
And then there was this claim:
“…the quality of living is worst and much more expensive than in any other western country.”
The quality of life is not worse than in any other western country, and, with the exception of some Italian cities, Italy is not ‘much‘ more expensive than any other western country – have a look here: International Cost of Living Comparison – Global Trends in 2009.
Yes, Italy does have its problems, but things have not yet become so bad as to have Italians marching en masse to Rome in protest and surrounding the Italian houses of parliament demanding change. Revolution does not seem to be in the air. Why? Because many, many, Italians are all right Jack – and Berlusconi knows this, as does an Italian friend of mine, who also made the same point.
Kiss also states:
“Most of the Italians are also very immature and childish and still wait for Santa Klaus to come and bring the gift of freedom.”
No, not true. Many Italians already think they are pretty free. Oh Italians love to complain about Italy, but very few are prepared to turn all the words into actions – why? Because their lives are not bad.
At the moment Berlusconi is having a go at riling the European Parliament. He may be aiming to detach Italy from the European community so he can exert his will on Italy and be unhindered by meddling Eurocrats. But even this will not provoke Italians to take to the streets in protest. Why?
Because life in Italy is not that bad.
One last point: Tax evasion is not such a bad thing. It means people have money to spend in difficult times, and consumer spending, at the end of the day, is what keeps economies ticking over.
About Alex Roe
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Life is so different in Napoli instead of Milan. I felt like being in Romenia or countries of that order….
Ah, Naples. Yes, it’s one of the places with complications in Italy – yet those from Naples love the city – so it can’t be all that bad.
Best,
Alex
It’s not bad…it’s just not easy.
Hi Nan,
Good point – life is not always easy here. But then life was not always that easy in the UK for me.
I’m still in Italy!
Best,
Alex
Perhaps she was just having a really bad day when she wrote the piece. It’s the build up of frustration that means I write such things, not because it actually is so.
Hi Andy,
Actually, Laura Kiss’s comments are very Italian – lots of negative, without the positive. One could argue that she too is one of the people who she claims are “very immature and childish”.
With the greatest of respect to Ms Kiss, I’m sure she has a nice house(s!), nice clothes, nice car, mobile phones and no shortage of cash either – but I could be wrong
All the best,
Alex
I think what she says is true, but it is the frustration of an Italian citizen and not the traveler or casual observer. (I’m sure my opinions on the US healthcare debate would be different from a non-US citizen.) I think the frustration for an Italian is that they see an exceptional population that routinely settles for less. All I know is that it is far too easy to judge from the outside…
Hi again Nan,
“I think what she says is true, but it is the frustration of an Italian citizen and not the traveler or casual observer.” – Yes, I would agree.
But do Italians really want change? – Which is a point someone else made in a comment on another post – Answer – no, not enough to want to really do something to provoke it. They generally have very good lives.
Yes, us outsiders who are inside tend to have differing views from those who are still ‘inside’ – one of the advantages of living in another country, I feel. You see things in a new light – both where you are, and, where you came from.
I think everyone should try life in another country for a year or two – but not in some expat enclave.
Best,
Alex
Hello Alex,
I like you analysis. Life in Italy is not bad at all: beautiful landscapes, huge artistic patrimony, very good food products, widespread wellness. For sure Italian people are lucky. The economic crisis hit many families: some friends of mine lost their job. But sadly it happened almost in every Country.
Said that, there are some serious problems – which I’m really worried about – that are poisoning the Country.
1) First of all the enormous corruption and the general lackness of ethics of the political class: many politicians, both right or left orienteed, are unprepared for the job. Usually no credit is given to merit, but to recommendation. Moreover in Italy crime pays and you may get elected (Berlusconi, Dell’Utri, etc. etc.). This is very dark.
2) Furthermore mafia is considered the biggest Italian company: Sicilia, Calabria, Campania, Puglia and Lombardia aren’t able to get rid of mafia. Italian civic sense is pretty declining. Mafia (especially ‘ndrangheta) still makes its own business. It’s well-known that in our Parliament there are senators that were found hand and glove with mafia.
3) After that, the general cultural level is still very poor: people do not read and inform theirself only watching tv; racism and omophobia are sadly becoming “popular”; and the high school system has really big big problems. What about Italian journalism, then?
Even Milan – a city I really love – would deserve a better administration. We need a change, too
New people on power… with innovative ideas, strong knowledge and high civic sense. Wealth is not enough to make a Country “healthy”…isn’t it?
Ciao!
Hi Alessio,
Thanks for commenting Good to hear from a real Italian!
“1) First of all the enormous corruption and the general lackness of ethics of the political class: many politicians, both right or left orienteed, are unprepared for the job. Usually no credit is given to merit, but to recommendation. Moreover in Italy crime pays and you may get elected (Berlusconi, Dell’Utri, etc. etc.). This is very dark.”
- Very true. Something needs to be done. But what?
“2) Furthermore mafia is considered the biggest Italian company: Sicilia, Calabria, Campania, Puglia and Lombardia aren’t able to get rid of mafia. Italian civic sense is pretty declining. Mafia (especially ‘ndrangheta) still makes its own business. It’s well-known that in our Parliament there are senators that were found hand and glove with mafia.”
This goes hand in hand with 1) above – Italians, and others, have known this for years – but no one does anything about it.
“3) After that, the general cultural level is still very poor: people do not read and inform theirself only watching tv; racism and omophobia are sadly becoming “popular”; and the high school system has really big big problems.”
- Again, this situation has been brought about intentionally, dare I say. Now, life is good for many Italians, so they do not feel the need to change anything.
Some Italians, of course, have become rich as a result of Italy being the way it is – these people are obviously happy to keep Italy the way it is too, as long as they can keep putting money in their bank accounts. Over the last 60 years, Italy’s politicians and power mongers have ensured that the Italian people have been kept just happy enough to keep them from demanding change. Even now, no one is saying ‘Hey, Mr Berlusconi, how about stepping down?’ Where are the opposition politicians, aside from Di Pietro?’
Some people, people like you, for example, know that things are not right, that corruption and mafia are not good, but you are in a minute minority.
The people who run Italy are very well entrenched, and very good at what they do – as is evidenced by Berlusconi’s election. Bringing about real change in Italy will be exceedingly difficult.
By the time Grillo and others manage to spread the word, it will be too late. It may be too late now.
“What about Italian journalism, then?” – all part of the game, I suspect
That there is a little opposition keeps the people under control in that they think something is being done, hope something might change, and therefore do not do anything to bring it about. Those clever P2 people set the ball rolling years ago – and they’ve just about achieved their aims – indeed, I suspect they achieved their goals long ago.
Life is not too bad in Italy for most, so it’s probably better to just let the water flow over us.
Time for a good cup of Italian coffee!
Now, what was the title of that old Pink Floyd song – ah yes ‘Comfortably Numb’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY
All the best,
Alex
I agree withI Alessio. After living as an American in the Florence and Sicily, I found and still find, via Italian friends, that Italy has lots of problems. In comparison to the U.S., Italians have a better quality of life, overall, but it really depends on where they live. You cannot compare Milan with Ragusa, just like you cannot compare NYC with a small town in Tennessee. As a former employee of the Italian government and Alitalia, corruption is still prevalent in Italian life. The one thing I still find disturbing is how many Italians are still quite insulated about other ethnicities in general, even with the internet. Too much emphaisis is still placed on the ” la bella figura! I work in the U.S. with Italian firms from every region on a frequent basis, therefore, my awareness of Italian problems has not diminished.
Hi Linda,
Alessio is right. Italy is not short of problems, not by any means. But, when all is said and done, it’s still not a bad place to live.
Interesting to hear you say that in comparison to the USA, Italians have a better quality of life – I do know a few Americans who would agree with you. I also believe that the quality of life in Italy is better than that of the UK too.
It’s true that life in Milan does not reflect life throughout Italy – but from what I’ve seen of Italy, and I have visited quite a few places, life looks OK in many places. As once said, I’d quite like to live in every single one of Italy’s regions before deciding where to live in Italy – and even then, I think the decision would not be easy!
“Italians are still quite insulated about other ethnicities in general, even with the internet.” Very true – and something of a sign that Italians are happy with the way things are.
“Too much emphaisis is still placed on the ” la bella figura!” – Oh yes – appearance counts here, big time – if you are Italian. I think Italians take the ‘bella figura’ thing far too seriously – but it’s the way Italy is. Berlusca is try to restore his bella figura now.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Dear Alexandra,
Ideally, it would be fantastic to be wealthy enough to go back and forth between both the U.S. and Italy. Even though one may be wealthy in Italy, god forbid a family member needs expert superior medical care; they’ll go abroad first to find it, if they can; even sell their house, if necessary! Since most Italians bascially have accepted the ‘status quo’, nothing will chang for now. Fashion, design, furniture, food, cars, music, jewelry, architecture, etc. will continue to flourish there without limitations, thank goodness. But the concept of ‘for the people, by the people’ just won’t happen in Italian society. This is not to say that Italian hospitality, impulsivity, creativity, and all the fantastic aspects of Italian society will suffer. However, if you are not wealthy, you have to depend on the many injustices within Italy’s system. Maybe due to my American nature, I prefer living in the U.S. where I can complain, protest, write my senator, call my congressman, and even get hold of a reporter to tell my tale of woe. I’d be just as happy with a nice 3 month trip to Sardegna or Como, and then return home.
Here’s my 2 cents worth. LIFE in italy is great – if you don’t pay attention to everything that goes on around you and if you are relatively wealthy. The same goes for life in the USA – keep an eye and ear closed to the politics and it’s tolerable. The longer I stay anywhere, the more problems I notice. But Italy has numerous advantages – a slower life, better food, state-run free prescription drugs – over everywhere else I’ve lived.
A good point is made above: I have been wondering for some time how so many fancy cars can be on the road when the average salary italy wide is 1000 euros net per month, and the average rent is 800 euros per month.
Hi Alessandra,
What you say about keeping your head down is true, and having some cash can help smooth life in Italy.
As for the flash cars owned by people who, on paper, earn so little – well, no you know
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Well … so many thoughts, then as I read through the comments, I thought ‘okay, other people know a lot more than me’ … but ut here I go anyway … just 2 cents worth.
1. I would rather visit Italy than the States – Italy welcomes me and doesn’t require my fingerprints on entry to the country or any other farcial thing like that.
2. The ‘corruption’ in Italy has perhaps … and I only say ‘perhaps’, slowed down Italy’s decline into the American model of life – the high speed, long working hours, short holidays, consumption kind of society that New Zealand started to follow back in the 90′s. I think Italy has this beautiful society – the walks in the evenings and weekends, the Sunday dinners, the family … all things I find myself nostalgic for. I saw it in Genova both times I was there and felt like an orphan mostly.
3. Italians know how to eat healthily, how to drink sensibly, and to holiday and I honestly admire that. The facts about their low mortgages, if any mortgage, stunned me. I have never heard of that … coming from New Zealand, now living in Belgium but family, the closeness of family plays a role in that?
4. Belgium has a superb social security set -up, healthcare is completely available, affordable and of a high standard however corruption in general everyday life is rampant. Working in the black, tax avoidance and etc, they just do it with a more serious and composed ‘bella figura’ I think.
5.
Maybe Italy should try the following … did you know, Belgium recently ran for well over 100 days with no government governing it? It just ground on and on …
But this is more like 15 cents worth from me. I’ll hush.
Just by the way, Mr Roe, another really interesting and informative, well-written article from you
Hi Di,
I think you’ve given quite a good balanced view of the good and not so good sides to living in Italy – and the surprising parallels which exist between Italy and northern European Belgium
Italy has been running without a government for over 60 years, one could argue! This means that it is no surprise that Belgium did well for 100 days!
One of the problems is that although we vote for those political types – we don’t get to choose who becomes a political type in the first place. And this is not only a problem in Italy.
Your 2 to 15+ cents are welcome any time.
Glad you found the post interesting.
Best,
Alex
Although … Beppe Grillo’s latest take just arrived in my inbox.
http://www.beppegrillo.it/en/2009/09/the_intellectuals.html
The problem is that in the past 15 years something changed.
I remember people throwing coins at Craxi (head of the socialist party and head of government at that time) when he was arrested for corruption during the tangentopoli scandal ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani_pulite ).
And now? We keep getting news about corruption, and all the people say is “oh, well, they all do it”.
I’m not saying that before Italy had no corruption, non disfuncion, or anything (I’d actually say that it was worse back then), but people reactions were different. When the first socialists were arrested the heads of the party immediatly took distance from them. Ok, it was only a scene, but the public was at least expecting that kind of reaction.
Now all that the majority of the public wants to hear is some politician saying that anyone that accuse him for anything is manipulated by the rival party. That’s not a good sign.
Hi Cristian,
I think the problem might be that certain people learned from their mistakes during the mani pulite times. Now they know how to protect themselves so that they do not get caught again.
“And now? We keep getting news about corruption, and all the people say is “oh, well, they all do it”.”
Does not make what they do right, but must encourage other to do the same. Not good.
“Now all that the majority of the public wants to hear is some politician saying that anyone that accuse him for anything is manipulated by the rival party.”
–this excuse should wear a little thin after a while – at least we can hope so.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
PS Sorry for not having replied sooner – things have been a little weird this evening!
Yup if you got a roof and some money niente problemi. But there will come a clash here the moment the pensions are not being paid anymore.
110 debt/gdp? Fiscal deficit will be more than 5% this year. Risk spread on gov deb going up.
Infrastructure is crap, lots of corruption, have you seen what italians buy in supermarkets? That’s good food? Berlusconi’s grip on the media is beyond dangerous.
One day it will blow.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for commenting.
“But there will come a clash here the moment the pensions are not being paid anymore.”
–Yes, you are right, but for many this is so far ahead in the future that they just do not worry about it. Nor to the politicians – for when the problems do arise, those around today will be but mere memories.
“110 debt/gdp? Fiscal deficit will be more than 5% this year. Risk spread on gov deb going up.”
–Yes – thought the deb/gdp ratio was higher. It’s still very high – not good.
“Infrastructure is crap” – Nope, not that bad – depends where you are.
“lots of corruption” – Yes, too much
“have you seen what italians buy in supermarkets? That’s good food?” – Can you give a few examples?
“Berlusconi’s grip on the media is beyond dangerous.” – It’s certainly not perceived as being healthy, true.
“One day it will blow.” – You could be right on this. But as to when and how, this is difficult to predict.
Best,
Alex
Hi, I often wonder about people living in Italy.
Does any one see Italy without wearing very large pink glasses ? Mortgages? Italians use the bank of Mum &Dad , a lot of them get married when the parents buy the the house or flat, so no need to struggle for deposit etc. !! Italy is beautiful !? Does anyone see the , the ravage that is been done to the towns and countryside , the shanty towns (baraccopoli) around any town (Rome has 15 or more) the illegal dumps, the pollution of air and water, the rubbish in the street, the huge number of legal or illegal immigrants bent on crime , drugs, prostitution ,the defacing of every surface available, be it the Metro ,vans lorry,building and monuments. Come on guys, remove the spectacles ,look at Italy winter weather, and tropical summers ,look at the crime ,look at the politics and tell me where all this wonder is .
Hi Maurice,
I think you will find that many Italians do not see Italy through rose tinted glasses. Many Italians are aware that all is not right.
There are problems, but then most countries have them, however, at the end of the day, the quality of life in Italy is not that bad – with the exception of a few situations – not as bad as some make it out to be.
As for mum and dad paying for son’s and daughter’s houses – remember that the same progeny will pay for the houses of their children. I don’t think this is bad – far from it, I’d love to be able to do the same for my own son.
Thanks for commenting.
Best,
Alex
Hi Alex.
I really like your blog: it shows Italy from a different perspective.
Regarding people with fancy cars but 1000 E salary, well it’s very simple: mortgages!
Young people now have to pay 30-40 years mortgages to buy a small apartment. It’s not everything so easy as it looks for you. And people just take a week or sometimes two in august but even in june or september when holidays are less expensive: I don’t know anyone who takes the whole month of august off.
20 years ago things were different: life was not so much expensive and people could afford nice houses with good furniture: maybe people you know in Italy are among those ones who are now 40-50 years old. For people aged 20-30 life is completely different! People aged 20-30 have to do 2 jobs at the same time to live independently. Salaries are very low for young people, even for graduates. I’ve been living abroad and I can assure you that quality of life for young people here is much lower than abroad. I don’t know many people who go out to dine at the restaurant very much, we usually eat at home because restaurants and bars are so expensive.
Of course for young people who still live with their parents everything is easy but really are they happy, living at 30 like they were teenagers? I don’t know
I’m sorry for my bad English.
I will continue to read you
F
Alex,
I’m not sure exactly why you’re on such a kick to promote how great life in italy is..
you’re not working for Berlusconi are you?
I have been living in Rome a couple of years now and this place has some real problems. People pay exorbitant rents while earning on average 1200 euros (currently 1081 GBP thereabouts). I suppose this wouldn’t be so unusual if it were evident that people were paying FOR something.
Instead, most of this city is a disorganised shambles, with potholes on every road, overcrowded buses, narrow pavements and barely working railway systems (although the metro system has improved somewhat). Add to that the nice covering of graffitti everywhere and you start to wonder why you have to pay up to (and in some cases, over) half your monthly salary (just for a room, not a whole apartment) in order to live here. The reason you still have 40 year old Italian men living with their mothers starts to become clear here.
The general feeling of most italians that I talk to in this city is that life is better elsewhere, particularly in the north of Europe. here the feeling seems to be generally that the ordinary person on the street doesn’t really matter all that much, particularly not to the Berlusconis out there. So I feel people don’t change things more from a feeling of powerlessness, rather than a feeling of general contentment.
The powered classes seem to have created a situation in which challenging the existing structure is nigh on impossible, with the complex webs of nepotism that reach every eschelon of social and political life. People need to get by from day to day, so that’s what they do. The fact that the simplest of things in daily life is a struggle here helps the system to remain as it is..it doesn’t mean people are happy about it.
Everyday life is a fight in Rome, not to get ripped off, abused, run over or to simply not have your eardrums burst by some inconsiderate motorist/street person. Never mind the perpetual struggle to get around the city and to get to places on time.
I’m not sure who you’ve been talking to about life in italy, but maybe try to include more Romans and southern italians in your researches..
Hi Al,
Thanks for your overview of life in Rome. The picture is rather bleak.
I don’t work for Berlusconi – if I did, I probably would not have published your comment
And from what you are saying, things have not improved since Silvio took power.
As for Italians moaning, they often do, before whipping out the latest mobile phone, and dropping their Armani shades down over their eyes. They will then zoom off in a newish car too – despite low salaries, everyone seems to be able to afford cars here, and the extremely high insurance prices too.
Try to look beyond the words.
You are right that nepotism is rife.
Take a look at one or two other posts on this blog, and you’ll see that I don’t wear rose tinted Armani shades.
I do admit to promoting Italy, as there is lots to like about the place – although what is good is often smothered by the bad and the ugly.
Where are you from?
Best,
Alex
Can’t say i agree with the armani shades and cars comment really.
I think most of them are probably fake armani, and when i see tax lawyers working for major multinational companies driving off in small fiats, I don’t seem to feel the awesome buying power of the italians. Of course, in rome, you have to buy a car or die..(as this is what it feels like to ride the public transport 24/7)
I knew people working in call centers in Scotland who drove nicer (and newer) cars.
Also, in terms of the general urban degradation of the place, you only have to look. Words don’t come into it.
The situation speaks for itself.
Of course maybe Milan is different.
Hi Al,
I think you may find that the Armani shades are not fakes.
You could be right on the differences between Milan and Rome. Up here BMW X5s are two a penny.
I did notice that the metro in Rome was scruffy when I was there last year, but the streets of Milan often have litter strewn all over the place.
I take it that you have not met many Italians in Rome whose parents have bought them apartments, or who have second homes. How many iPhones and Blackberries do you see on the streets of Rome?
Maybe life is tougher in the eternal city. But I find it difficult to understand how people earning around 1000 Euros a month can afford to bring up kids, have several cars, and manage to holiday every year in August. The money must come from somewhere.
You mentioned Berlusconi. Isn’t it odd that people so poor should vote for someone like Silvio? Shouldn’t everyone be voting for the more socially conscious left?
Italy is a curious country, that is for sure. Oh, it has lots of faults, but in some respects it is better than the UK where I am from.
What are you doing in Rome?
Best,
Alex
I completely agree with everything you said Al. I have been living in Rome for 11 months as an au pair and I am thanking my lucky stars that I only have one month to go. I have liked my job and the experience of living here but I am sick of listening to Italians complain and the basic destruction of a once beautiful historic city.
I know I can not generalise but this is just an example of one Italian family and I have heard A LOT of similar stories. I work for a lovely family but for the life of me I can not figure out what they’re all about. The parents were never married and are now separated but between them they own two houses on the outskirts of the city centre. One country house is Tuscany. Three cars, two motorbikes AND a boat. Now when I say they own their houses I actually mean their parents bought one of the Rome houses and the country house. The family also spends one or two months a year abroad.
Hearing this I would think that the family is indeed wealthy…but no unless theres a hidden goldmine somewhere they are not. So my question is how THE HELL do Italian families afford all this. On top of this the mother complains non-stop about having no money, I have never once been paid on time in a year. However, she spends like money is going out of fashion, the house is decked out in the latest stuff etc. There is also a cleaner employed in the home. Basically the mother does nothing and I mean nothing. She kisses and hugs the kids a lot though, I guess thats something.
So being from Australia, where we work and look after our homes and families WITHOUT help, WITHOUT country/beach houses and WITHOUT mummies and daddies bank accounts, I’m wondering why Italians complain so much. Well I know why they complain because of their general life and having no money. Therefore, this is where I feel like shouting if you have no money STOP buying useless things, DON’T employ a cleaner (get off your ass and do it yourself), and DON’T employ a nanny to look after YOUR kids. Ok I know it seems like I’m just having a random rant but this is really what occurs in a lot of families. I have many friends who are nannies and its the same in their families.
On another note in agreement with Al I also find Rome to be unpleasant. The graffiti and litter is horrifying. Basically the general lack of respect for a truly historic city is absurd and yes I mean the way especially the youth treat it but also tourists. The Australian government would never stand for anything to be treated this way. And yes I understand the state of the Italian government but no matter what political side you’re on it eventually comes down to each and every citizen.
I also found Italians in general quite rude. When I first got here people were rude because I couldn’t speak Italian and then after I learnt it, they were rude because they assumed I couldn’t speak Italian. Even after I asked them a question in Italian or answered them they would respond strangely or in stilted English.
I’m actually worried for Rome. Its terribly sad to see it like this. My main question of all this though is how do Italians afford everything. Is it really because of the family dynamic? As in parents buying everything for children then they buy everything for their children etc etc?
All that I’ve written in no way means I don’t like Rome or Italy. I will definately be back but I could never EVER live here in a flying pink fit. And yes I know no ones asking me to haha. And yes I understand there are cultural differences in the way Italians live their life and bring up their family. I just wonder why they seem to have everything money and material wise but everything still seems to be crumbling down around them.
This is just my two cents and opinion, ciao.
Hi Jess,
Thanks for your comment. The way I read what you’ve written is that you agree partly with me – on the subject of Italians seemingly having no money, but having rather a lot!
As for Italians letting their country fall apart – I’ve never understood this.
Yes, Italians can give be rude -until you know them, then many become as nice as pie!
Best,
Alex
Alex I think you are being completely blind to the truth about Italy. You look at all the luxuries of living and the fact that people aren’t taking action and see that as evidence that ‘All is not so bad’.
I think you should do us readers the decency of letting us know a little more about your living situation in Milan because it seems like your perspective is highly insulated from the bleak reality that faces “the majority” of Italians (of course this majority makes up the minority of the wealth of Italy).
Maurice, F and Al are all representing a more accurate version of the way Italy is and unless you have a nice location in downtowm Milan with some fashion types or well to do friends and head out for an apperitivo every other day, that version of things should be blindingly obvious!
As we all know, the image factor in Italy is possibly the most important thing an italians life so I really fail to understand how you could continue to make references to aspects of that image factor as evidence for Italian life being quite good!
Why do Italians that earn 1200 a month (on paper) spend 800 a month on rent? Because image is Very important! Why do they take long holidays in August, have new phones and cars and redecorate the apartment? Because image is Very important!
I’m sorry, I’m laughing now , but did you say “tax evasion is not such a bad thing”???? Are you serious? That statement is communicating to me that you either A) have blinkers on and a lack of education to see the consequences of people not paying tax….. or B) you are living in with that group of shielded people and high society (its quite a big group compared to many other civilised nations) that is using the current system to keep a quiet advantage over the working majority and wouldn’t change the status quo .
alot of italians make huge sacrifices to maintain that “image factor” or they work in the black, nero, under the table…. to get ahead at all in Italy you are almost forced to break the law….. Look at one of the role models for most young male italians, he has done quite well for himself, and got the right image, the right girl…His name is Fabrizio Corona, he came to fame as an extortionist taking compromising photos of celebrities and then blackmailing them not to publish…. He breaks the law regularly and is one of the most respected people of young everyday italians.
Th italian family culture is very strong, it can certainly be a huge support for any young italian who is fortunate enough to have well off parents. But it is also a very codependant culture…. a foreigner could argue how healthy that can be but its a part of italy and in many cases works effectively, at least for now. I don’t know what it will be like for the next generation.
Italy has alot to offer, of that there is no doubt. The food, the fashion, the alternative approach to achieving something. Certainly the weather is the best on average of most of Europe. But that makes the bad points even more frustrating.
I agree with Nan that Italians are an exceptional people, with creativity and ambition unlike any other country but to be a foreigner living in Italy it is very frustrating that they do all settle for less and still complain about it. Because I see many of the problems and cannot understand for the life of me, how they can accept them. And they just say “welcome in Italia” I say Italians deserve Italy.
Hi Russell,
Do you live in Italy? Have you lived in Italy? Are you Italian? (Russell is not the most common of Italian names) You seem to know a little about Italy.
I suppose I do know a lot of graduates, this is true, but I also know a few non-graduates too. Nobody I know seems to have any real shortage of cash situation. On paper, neither do I really, only my money is perennially in other peoples banks! I’m sure there are some people who do have problems, but I don’t know many of them, and the one’s I do, are generally not Italians.
What I and a few other non-Italians have noticed through the years, is that there is a lot of family money here. In the UK, there is not so much, unless you move into the very highest echelons of society.
“Why do Italians that earn 1200 a month (on paper) spend 800 a month on rent?” – because they get handouts from family? Otherwise, unless you eat air, you are not going to survive on €400, well, not in Milan.
“I’m sorry, I’m laughing now , but did you say “tax evasion is not such a bad thing”???? Are you serious?” – Yes, I am. Indeed, it is tax evasion which has probably propped up Italy’s economy throughout the crisis, to an extent. Think about it – you are thinking normally, not out of the box. And if the government finally cracks down on tax evasion on Italy, consumer spending will fall drastically, for a start. And no, I’m not living in a shielded level of society – ask my accountant.
“they [Italians] work in the black, nero, under the table…. to get ahead at all in Italy you are almost forced to break the law” – there you see, tax evasion helps people get ahead too – you said it yourself.
Yes, Italy does have a lot to offer, that’s so true. The “image factor” as you put it, shows, perhaps, that not everything is perfect, but, at the end of the day, life ain’t so bad here. I’ve was at a similar level of income/lifestyle in the UK, before I came to Italy over 10 years ago. I had a good quality of life in the UK, but I soon found that for less money, more or less, Italy presented a better quality of life.
And this post was inspired by an Italian friend of mine who basically said the same thing.
Thanks for commenting and do let us know if you are Italian.
Best,
Alex
As an Italian in Britain,i can honestly say that if you think Italy is a better place to live than the UK,your not right in the head. You only say that because you live in Milan,a Northern Italian city with much wealth. Go to place like Turin,Naples or anywhere south of Venice you will see expensive properties,poverty and general misery. My life here in the U.K is so much better than in Italy and most Italians agree with me,the life herr is cheaper,the education systemis better funded,the crime is lower and its not corrupt. Italy is also the worst country in Europe to be a women,and is ranked a sbeing the most unequal in Europe. Alex,before you make any assumptions,as a rich expat,you should live the life of a normal Italian and realise what a rubbish country it is to live in. Give me the UK anyday!
Hi Sam,
The title of a post was a question. Interesting to hear your opinion as an Italian in the UK.
I was down in Abruzzo last summer, and life down there did not seem at all bad. Some, Italian, friends of mine will be off to Le Marche, and they seem to like the quality of life there too.
Life anywhere without money is not easy. I know Italy has problems and, hopefully, it will sort itself out and you can come back
As for my being a “rich expat” – I wish.
Best,
Alex
I also live in Milan, which I think makes things easier in comparison to other places. I’ve been here for nearly two years and I love it. Yes, it’s not the easiest place to live in, and yes, you *do* need a certain amount of wealth to live a comfortable life here – for someone who doesn’t have any family here to ask for handouts it can be difficult – but for me, it works, I love the slower pace of life and the people. It’s funny how many Italians I know would jump at the chance to leave, and many people I know at home would love to be in my position.
Hi everybody
I apologize for all the grammatical errors i’m going to do.
I’m Italian from RomA
I would like to tell something to Jes, she thinks that italians were rude because she wasn’t able to speak italian… The problem is that we are italian, our national language is italian and most of the people are able to speak just a really basic english and they could seem rude when they try to speak it. By the way, i have been backpacking 1 month in Australia (awesome country) from Cairns to Melbourne, i had just one problem during the trip, especially in queensland, often i wasn’t able to understand what the people were sayng to me, and everybody was annoyed of this, acting like i was an idiot because i didn’t understand. I think my understanding skill of english is pretty good (i’m able to watch movie and read books without any problem) after 2 weeks i understood the problem was that most of the anglosaxon people (not only the oz) are speaking with weird accents or in dialects and pretend you to understand everything, often they can’t figure out such is hard to express your self in other languages cuase they speak only english. For honour of truth i’ve also met people that were nice with me also if i wasn’t understanding everything. That to explain that everywhere everybody could be a little bit rude if you don’t speak perfectly their language
About living in Italia
Currently i’m living/working in Milano and you definetely can’t compare this city with Roma. Milano is really much more developed than Roma, sometimes going around milano i feel like i’m not in an italian town.